Thanks Noc. I’ve been holding back on the qcb+kick and DP kick. They seem to be even more effective when I rarely ever use them, because the opponent forgets what Gato can do with those tools. Though, I usually stick to sure-fire 3-4 hits combos. I tend not to use the qcb+ kick in combos, because it feels kinda’ random when you connect on the ground. Like say, I can do standing C, then qcb + B, then B kick. Unless I mash the B kick follow up as quickly as possible, the B kick can completely miss the guy.
Now that I’ve gotten used to his footsies and the high/low mixup, I can see now why Gato is in the upper mid tiers. His footsies are really effective, and if you’re quick enough, you can connect a super off of anything. The overhead into super is probably his most dangerous tool. I’ve won many matches on GGPO because of it.
The only matches that give me trouble for the moment are Hotaru players that spam that dive and Chun Li toe stomp. Her dive is really annoying because it seems to beat Gato’s normals and the DP kick. My only option is to JD it, or if it’s really obvious, go for his Reversal and Super her ass.
Dong is the other big problem because a lot of his moves cannot be effectively punished unless you use Guard Reversal, which in itself is difficult because I did that and did A Super, and he was still able to attack and interrupt that. The other problem is his Dive Super, which is very abuseable, and very easy to be caught with.
sounds to me like your not playing very safe, hotaru’s dive kick is very punishable if blocked, if you are hit by it frequently you probubly deserve it either because your predictable or using moves that she can punish with it on reaction, . I use it alot against mid-low level gatos because it counters his qcb moves on reaction, and once in a while just because i predicted something but spamming it would get me killed in the long run.
I cant be sure without seeing matches but same thing with dong super in alot of cases its probubly mostly just you not being careful.
if your GC are bein beaten out you can try a different special move for that situation, or just block if nothing works consistantly.
gato’s super should beat anything that he is in range for on GC i believe
head stomp is a good move, but learn to block it or GC it or its followups. Its probubly one of the harder things to deal with consistantly in the game but it still has risk associated with it. hotaru’s lows don’t lead into damage and neither does the stomp.
the number of times you did any non offensive movement could be counted on one finger. I mean it worked somewhat at keeping him pinned and jae is a rush down character for sure but the near complete lack of back dash, vertical jump and jump back is unusual and probably not ideal, they are useful tools and i am not sure you were aware that you weren’t using them at all, and i think a lot of players would tear you apart if they figured that out.
Ewww~ I have to backdash and jump back??? Dang it :arazz: Don’t get me wrong, I know backdashing is a strong property and has invincibility and I’m fully aware I don’t use them. But I just absolutely hate being away from my opponent
Looks like I gotta break some habits then :wonder:
I missed the video post. Well for the most part you seem to have Jae’s offense pretty decent. You make good use of FCs to keep pressure on them. Which is something a lot of new people don’t tend to use. I think you just really need to work on your defense a bit more. Also don’t pull off anything risky like when you did :qcf:x2 + :snka: during wake up on round 2. It’s really risky trying that especially if the person is jumping or playing it safe on wake up. If Dong does :qcb: + :snkb: and you block/JD, he has enough time to backdash after it. So anything you might try will likely miss him. Just keep that in mind. It’s not a bad thing being aggressive, but you also have to make sure you don’t put yourself in a bad position from doing it too much. Play it safe and use the safest normal/specials/supers during a match really. Please do post more videos it’s always nice seeing other people playing the game even if they are still learning. It can probably help others in the long run also.
Just curious, how would you guys re-balance MOTW? I know it’s too late for that now, SNKP had their chance with the XBL release, but I remain curious.
All Reversals (including Freeman’s B and D supers) work 100% of the time regardless of a crossup or if the opponent is just out of range of receiving that cross up attack.
Fix Tizoc’s grab glitch. It’s not a big issue, the giant chicken man isn’t even a main for me, but it should be fixed.
Severely reduce the damage on Kevin’s B and D supers. It should be more along the lines of Iori’s stun super in KOF 98, it does a little damage, but the stun gives you ample combo opportunities.
Jenet’s dive should be less safe, and shouldn’t trade with a good air poke.
On that note; Jenet, Kevin, and (maybe) Terry’s block strings should have more pushback. This is debatable, and I can go with or without it being done.
One last thing, this may piss some people off, I think Dong needs more recovery frames. He has so many ‘safe’ moves that he can spam with impunity, that it becomes really difficult to punish his ass unless you’ve perfected the art of Guard Cancelling. Even then it can be difficult to get him.
Other than that, this along with HD Remix are the most balanced fighters on the planet.
Personally, Tizoc could go with a few fixes, but that’s just about it. Oh and maybe fix Jenet’s bug?
By reversals do you mean counters? Because of all the counters in the game, Rock’s QCF+B is the best if used properly, else I’d shy away from using them…
Do you know how much damage his Kick supers do? B ver. does 21 points; that’s around 17.5% damage, and the D ver. does a little extra; around 36-ish IIRC. There’s no need to scale it down IMO, and TBH…I’m fine with Kevin’s combo possibilities/capabilities.
There isn’t really much that should be fixed to tell you the truth. If anything the main things that should be adjusted (if I had to make a list):
-TOP mode should be tweaked slightly or just remove it from the game. They should probably just give everyone the TOP attack as an extra special move instead. All they really need to do is fix the slowdown from TOP activation and have it so the damage is equal no matter the size of the TOP bar.
-Fix the throw escape bug. It doesn’t just apply to Tizoc. It’s just that it hurts him more because he needs throws for damage.
-Breaks should probably cost meter and same for guard cancels. Though I think they are fine as they are now. I know most people wanted it more like RB2. It would help remove Kevin’s corner guard crush break loop stuff. The only problem with this is that now meter building will take longer for certain characters. Some characters need their break cancel to build meter.
-Have it so when you FC (feint cancel) it creates more push back during block strings or when you combo with it.
-Remove Kevin’s special cancel and Gato’s stomp cancel. They wont be able to build meter as fast.
-Remove the Jenet hit stun bug.
-Remove the Rock freeze bug that happens when Freeman hits him with his :snkd: counter super. It’s not really a huge deal since Rock can’t be hit anyways when he’s stuck. It’s also a situational type of thing. Chances of it happening in a match is very small.
Those are the main things that should probably be looked into IMO.
i just want hotarus b/d super to not just get one hit sometimes and have them punish me, i’d be fine if it knocked down and did like no damage but to eat their biggest combo for hitting them with my anti air super is bleh.
kevin’s break move could be like + 5 rather than part of an inescapable gaurd crush string and he would still be amazing. or maybe make it so that you can high crush it if its a high jab and JD it if it is a low one. it just shouldn’t be inescapable.
jenets dive kick should have a little less priority on start-up but she needs them for pressure so i wouldn’t really mess with the frame data much .
remove the glitched meter building, breaks are good enough.
I personally wouldn’t want anything done to most breaks and the feint stuff, along with short hop those things keep the games offense and defense balanced, JD is better than parry why do you think this game hasn’t become 3rd strike parry fishing. I mean it could be tweaked a little but i think major stuff would hurt more than help.
remove the entering TOP timing differences.
I would like it for hotaru and hokutomaru to lose their health reduction. I mean they have good runaway but not enough to warrant a health reduction along with their other flaws.
I still don’t understand why he’s low tier even. He doesn’t have many links to his supers. The few that he does have are incredibly effective because even his A or B supers do around 50% damage. On top of this, he can instantly do his B super after his Ram Attack or his Dive Kick, and he has the easiest corner combo in the entire game. All he needs is to launch you once via either of his launching attacks, or score a counter hit, and bam! He does 75% damage without even needing a super.
I have yet to read a solid argument as to why he’s legal. I have no problems with Kain, he’s strong but not impossible, he’s very hard to use the right way, and he has very limited ways to link to super. In my opinion, if you think Grant’s legal and is just as well off as the rest of the cast, then you may as well say that Omegal Rugal is legal KOF 02.
Grant isn’t low tier. If I remember correctly, he is upper tier which is the highest tier besides “God Tier” or something where only Kevin resides. <_<
No, he isn’t as broken as Omega Rugal in any of the games he is in. Someone else will probably go more in-depth about it, but I will tell you right now he isn’t as good as you think.
its more like you need a solid argument **to **ban him not the other way around, absolutely no reason to ban him. He is a boss character but isn’t even close to the best character. he’s good but in any tier list ive seen there’s a good chunck of the cast above him.
he’s kinda linear and basic and his mixups are hard to land or gimmicky. he has good pressure and damage(not the best or anything) along with extra health, but if your good at blocking/JDing and avoiding being pinned he gets easier.
He’s a pretty easy character to pick up so he will probably win more matches in the beginning naturally.
If your bad at blocking and get hit by alot of his dashes, mixups, or try and attack out of block strings at bad spots, i can see someone thinking he is broken tier but in reality he’s not even close, you wont complain about him much after playing the game more.
Good idea, I think I’ll try it. My apologies if my initial post came off as whining, that wasn’t my intent. I was just looking for some Counter-Grant strategies if anything.
I dont know where you are getting 75% damage from a combo with no super. Chances of lading anything near that in a match is slim unless you have no idea how to fight Grant. Grant’s main weakness is that he needs meter to do damage in the first place. If he has no meter he can’t really deal much damage outsite the corner. If you are getting cornered by Grant then you have to to pay attention and JD. You can’t always expect to beat out people after you block one of their specials. Whenever I play a Grant player and they have meter I always expect his super to come out after his dive kick on block/JD or even his charge special. If I can’t GC on reaction after JD then I jsut wait and see what they try. If a super comes out it’s a free JD (free life back) then either wait and throw. You can also GC on the last JD if you remember how many hits his super hits.
His charge special is good but not unbeatable. You can :d: : :snka: + :snkb: his charge special to counter it if you know it’s coming. If you are using a fireball character than Grant has to be more careful doing the charge move. The :qcf: + :snkb: version is unsafe on block if he does it close. You get enough time to start a combo of your choice or super from it. If he does it from the right spacing it can he risky trying to punish after it. You just have to look at what distance they are using the move from to punish it correctly. The :qcf: + :snkd: version is safe on block but has longer start up. So if you see it start out slower than it’s the :qcf: + :snkd: version coming out. If you block/JD it Grant has the advantage because it has a longer hit stun on the :snkd: version. So be carefull when you know it’s the :snkd: version expect :d: + :snka: to come out or even a super.
Grant’s dive has good priority but it can get beat out by simple things like a stand :snka: with anyone. You just have to be at the right distance when he is doing the dive kick. Don’t expect to beat it out if he’s right on top of you doing the dive. Best option is to JD into GC with whatever special you have or super. It’s pretty simple to JD it and just wait to see what they try afterwards. Usually what most Grant players tend to do is do his dive kick then as they land do his super. That is why you have to play it safe, when Grant does his dive kick, where the only option you have is to block/JD it. Again just play it safe when Grant has meter because chances are he wants to land the super from any possibly situation.
Grant’s :dp: + :snka:/:snkc: is actually pretty good. It has great start up priority and Grant can follow it up with his dive kick. It’s his break move so you can use it to build meter, which is what he needs. This is what Grant will need to land his corner combo stuff or even mid-screen combos really. So it’s really the only special move Grant can combo into besides his dive kick. So if you think about Grant’s combo potential he doesn’t really have much compared to everyone else (besides Tizoc). I can also bring up the fact that Grant cannot FC at all, which is a good thing. Main reason they removed FCs from Grant was to remove his infinite from the prototype version of the game. I think it was a smart move to balance him out more. That is also why Grant is probably the easiest character to pick up. That still doesn’t mean free wins if you pick Grant. Once you understand what his weaknesses are then you can see why he isn’t as good as most think.
Anyone have some easy to link Hokutomaru matches? Figured that’d be best to ask for as I pour through all 65 threads for combo’s, stats, and tiers for him. Recently picked this up on Live with a thread, and despite some massive hiccups every now and then the netplay for it is manageable. Such an amazing game, I feel I lost I lot just now picking it up.
[media=youtube]K8rhVBO0vtY&feature=related[/media]
not the best camera angle but verrry good play
I’m not sure why wata ends his corner combos with :df:+:snkd: xx :qcf:+:snka: instead of :df:+:snkd: xx :qcb:+:snkd: …
Is he looking to go into a B super, keep the pace of the game quicker, or ?
hokus air chain is :snka:,:snkb: or :snka:,:snkc: on larger characters
his ground chain :snkb:,:snkd: is awesome because it’s fairly easy to confirm for :qcb:+:snka: or punch super
to throw a shuriken very soon after you leave the ground just buffer: :qcf::uf: … :snka: / :snkc:
his corner infinite should be :snkd:,:d:+:snka::snkc:,:r::r:
I figured out something very important personally for rock a few days ago
:d::db:(:l:+:snkd:):ub::u::uf::r::snkc: (really, I just go all the way back around to :d:)
is much more consistent for me (currently on snes pad) than
