Garou: MOTW Thread

[Tea]

http://www.h5.dion.ne.jp/~h.arena/mowrank.htm

Howard Arena again! The previous post is the movie page, but… now it’s gone!! However… there’s an updated tier list, which is quite interesting.

1. Gato/Jenet
   2.Jae/Grant
   3.Dong (!!)
   4.Kevin (?)
   5.Marco(Butt)
   6.Kain
   7.Terry
   8.Hotaru
   9.Hokutomaru/Freeman
   10.Rock(?!)
   11.Griffon(Tizok)
   I believe this is very controversial compared to what most in this community think.
   Jenet and Gato I understand, but Dong higher than Kevin? What are your thoughts?

[Atb_555]

You got to move around alot with Dong to be really effective, whereas Kevin can rush your ass like no tommorow. I think Kevin a Dong need to switch places in that list.

[System_1]

Wow, I had no idea Jae was so high up there, yet I rarely see many people that play him, although I like playing him myself. I don’t see why Rock is so low though, he is awesome! I saw a really spiffy match video of Rock vs. Kevin on youtube.com and it was just amazing how they both fought so hard.

[System_1]

Should Kain really be that high? Above Hotaru?

[Giby]

http://www.h5.dion.ne.jp/~h.arena/mowrank.htm

Howard Arena again! The previous post is the movie page, but… now it’s gone!! However… there’s an updated tier list, which is quite interesting.

1. Gato/Jenet
   2.Jae/Grant
   3.Dong (!!)
   4.Kevin (?)
   5.Marco(Butt)
   6.Kain
   7.Terry
   8.Hotaru
   9.Hokutomaru/Freeman
   10.Rock(?!)
   11.Griffon(Tizok)
   I believe this is very controversial compared to what most in this community think.
   Jenet and Gato I understand, but Dong higher than Kevin? What are your thoughts?

They base their tier list off of the matches they play. So if Kev wins 1 he’ll gain a point, if he loses one he loses a point(or doesn’t lose a thing). If you notice, their tier list is constantly changing.

[Toodles]

Should Kain really be that high? Above Hotaru?

Above Hotaru is a maybe. What’s surprising is Kain above Terry. WTF?? They create some super secret Kain techniques?

[Nocturnal]

Kain has a lot of great tools to take out most of the cast, most people don’t know how to use him correctly. I also believe that Kain has better mixup options as far as the wakeup game goes than Terry.

[Terry_nb]

Kain has a lot of great tools to take out most of the cast, most people don’t know how to use him correctly. I also believe that Kain has better mixup options as far as the wakeup game goes than Terry.

Really, I can’t belive that …, please explain this to an old veteran (sure no pro but not to bad as a player in the past) of the game.

[Khiempossible]

Movie Fanatic

get an account, then give feedback.

[System_1]

Is lp or hp better for breaking with Marco? I noticed lp pushes you back while hp brings you towards the opponent.

[Khiempossible]

lp or hp what? you mean standing A vs standing C? C does more guard bar damage than A and you can fake cancel your Cs. But if you mean dp (break) C vs. A, C is still better cause it moves forward more than A.

[Tea]

He only has one brakable move, right?
Like the moves themselves, it depends on the spacing. If you really wanna rush them down stick with the HP version, but if you’re too close they could throw you after the brake. With LP you can’t keep the pressure as well, but you can bait attacks differently. Also remember that if you don’t hit them deep, they won’t get knocked down and you could end up wide open.

As for me, here’s how I use them…

Since the damage is pretty equal (maybe exactly the same), the spacing works well for anti-air situations. If they’re straight ahead, use LP, but if they’re farther out or are about to jump use HP.
On wakeup I use LP braked because it’s the safest because of the pushback. I’m not really aiming to land a dp combo, just get them off my back.
If I have them in the corner, then I tend to use HP braked version more so I can stay in close.
As for baiting with the LP version… I’ve seen you do this already, 9999. Just toss a fireball. It covers the gap you made, plus has lots of priority. To put it together, rush a bit with HP version, then let off with a LP version. Then fireball, c.A+B, dash, or qcb+lp/lk to get back in.
When pressuring with HP version, I’ve seen people use c.LK 1-3 in between braked dp+HP. The c.LK seems to beat throws pretty well.
Also remember that after f+lp, dp+HP probably has a better chance of comboing.

[Khiempossible]

I’m impatient, cause I really want to hear feedback.

I haven’t played this game in like… months. And I wasn’t really very good (isolated and little competition). So here’s my contribution before my next 2 month hiatus.

MOVELIST ANALYSIS

A Light Punch
B Light Kick
C Hard Punch
D Hard Kick

sc. standing close
sf. standing far
c. crouching
j. jumping
sj. super jump

Tier 1 Normal Moves

sc.A and sf.A - An excellent poke. Fast. Combos into itself, but more importantly, combos to c.C and dp+C

c.B - Hits low and, importantly, links to c.C

c.C - A good poke, since you’re crouching during the animation cancels into a ton of stuff

j.B - your air to air jumping attack, can work as a jump in

j.D - your other jumping attack, cancels to j.d+K

Tier 2 Normal Moves

sc.D - Combos into certain special moves like qcf+B and can be fake cancelled a couple times for extra damage

sf.C - Your one button anti air, I don’t find it incredibly effective, but you know, it’s there

j.A j.C - this air chain combos to super, and can be a surprisingly effective jump in.

Tier 3 Normal Moves

c.D - Laggy and low priority, I throw it out once in a while

sf.D - I think this jumps over lows, I throw it out once in a while, I think it’s minorly effective as an anti air

Command Moves

air throw - do your best to land this one, it’s excellent damage and will hit opponents who have poor anti airs and JD instead

s.A+B - overhead with low invincibility, it’s amazing how effective this can be to fuck with opponents

c.A+B - cancels like all the other ones, it should be a pretty good anti air, but its slow to come out

TOP CD - I believe this hits over head? that’s about as useful as it gets, cause it lags like a beast otherwise

j.b+C - it’s hard as hell to land decent combos after this, I can’t remember if it’s like iori’s and crouch blockable. Throw it in your mixup games.

Special Moves

dp+C - My anti air of choice. 6 hits that can be hard to JD. Breaks into qcfx3 + C. Breaked version is safe, however breaked version will not work for anti air. Fucked on block.

qcf+B - A good combo starter and let’s you pressure on block, pretty slow to come out. CH grants you bigger combos, but I usually just stick with BnB shit.

qcf+D - A huge combo starter. Slow as fuck to come out. Hard as hell to land, can be blocked on reaction. But if it’s blocked instead of interupted, you can continue pressure afterwards. On CH you get a weaker launch than regular hit, fucking up certain combos unless adjustments are made.

qcb+K - The 1 hit difference between the two moves is irrelevant, as it doesn’t change their effectiveness at all. B version hits sooner. Both hit overhead. Pretty slow to come out and have 0 priority. Anybody can interupt it with s.A. Counter hit stuns enough to land a free c.C combo I believe.

hcb+P (or was it K) - doesn’t matter. don’t use this move. it’s garbage.

Supers

qcfx2+A - combos into itself (see combo section), but can punish moves that are JDed in air occasionally (height depending) and can punish whiffed moves. Nothing close to leona’s 2k2 V slasher though

qcfx2+C - don’t use it, qcfx2+A is strictly better

qcfx2+B - D.Hwans damage source. combos off c.C. Low priority as well (beaten by standing jab). Don’t throw it out randomly. I don’t even think it hits overhead.

qcfx2+D - more garbage. the only way to combo the full version is off ch.c.C early cancel, so you can’t even hit confirm it.

BNB COMBOS:

Starters That Are Easy to Land

(anywhere) c.B c.C qcfx2+B or qcfx3+C (HIGH PRIORITY TO LEARNING)

low to c.C link to early cancel of qcfx2+B. Learn the timing, it’s tough til you get it, but it’s the only way to get damage with DHwan in this game.

(anywhere) sc.A c.C qcfx2+B

similar to above, timing is easier.

(anywhere) sc.A dp+C (break) qcfx3+C

(anywhere) qcf+B c.C qcfx3+C or qcfx2+B

(anywhere) sc.D qcf+B

see above for finishers

(corner) j.A j.C j.A qcfx2+A j.qcfx2+A dp+C

j.A j.C is an air chain. then you land and link another j.A afterwards. Cancel to super.

(anywhere) j.A qcfx2+A sj.qcfx2+A (if in corner) dp+C

(anywhere) j.qcfx2+A sj.qcfx2+A (if in corner) dp+C (HIGH PRIORITY)

(anywhere) dp+C break qcfx3+C (easy damage)

Hard to Land Starters

qcf+D sj.qcfx2+A sj.qcfx2+A (if in the corner) dp+C

qcf+D qcfx2+B (fails if qcf+D hit on CH)

qcf+D dp+C

CH dp+C break dp+C break sj.qcfx2+A sj.qcfx2+A (if in the corner) dp+C

CH qcb+B c.C (see above for finishers)

ground combos that start with normals will combo off jump ins as well
you can probably also do some crouch cancel garbage to lengthen the combos, but I can’t and don’t bother.

Combo Notes:

1. c.B c.C qcfx2+B

The trick here is to learn the link timing.
Between the c.B hitting (impacts in 4 frames) and c.C hitting (impacts in 5 frames) there is exactly 1 frame for error.
Learn to link 100%, not by mashing, but just one button press to get the combo.
During this time after the c.B hits and before the C.C hits you must buffer qcf.
If you start buffering before the c.B lands, c.B will get kara-ed into qcf+B.
Ideally, you buffer qcf down and use the down input on the c.C.
Once the combo meter registers you just finish the motion and press B again (within a frame or two of the c.C connecting)

Ta Da! Now go practice

2. j.qcfx2+A sj.qcfx2+A dp+C and variations of

the tricks to this one are to:

a) Learn to buffer qcf on the ground before jumping. Input is something like qcf qcf u_uf+A
b) The second trick is to learn to hit the opponent on the 2nd last frame of falling animation.
If you watch closely there are two specific frames of animation to the falling body. One is the body bent over, that is the last frame and too late. The one before should be a straight body head first towards the ground. You want to time your supers to hit on that animation frame. This leads to the most hits and easiest way to land the followups.
Or maybe that’s just the way I do it, and this has more to do with which part of the body you connect with. If that’s the case, aim for the neck.
The hard part is that the frame before if hit with the super will not launch high enough for a followup.
Of course you can just guess and hit the body in the middle (stomach). You’ll probably get less hits and might screw it up, but it’s probably better damage than nothing.

3. the j.A air chain j.C j.A link to super

once you’ve learned the above, apply the same trick to the link. the air chain stuns long enough that if you jump right away you can combo the j.A. That should be easy. Now you just buffer a qcf in before you jump and finish it when the j.A connects.

STRATEGY:

Some basic strats I use.

c.C mixup.

Poke with c.C and if you’re opponent isn’t sharp, you get a free qcb+B or qcf+D mixup even on block. Since it doesn’t combo, they can be JDed, punched or reversalled. So be wary.

j.d+B

d+B is safer, but if you hit the guys legs, the recovery is something close to even or in your favour, I know tizoc won’t get a free throw if spaced properly. It’s a great harassment tool, assuming your opponent lacks a good anti air to stop it.
On hit, a lot of unknowledgeable opponents think you’re recovering. And you are. Especially if you hit them in the chest. However, a dp+C will CH any followup they throw at you (not thoroughly tested).

qcf+B and qcf+D block stun.

For slow moves on block they give you free pressure strings. Just run up do a s.A c.C mixup again or go back to a qcf+D.

whiff qcf+B for meter

dp+C break block strings. dp+C break is very safe (-6 + pushout). So safe in fact that you’re opponent will have to do something slower to hit you (sweep, sf.C or sf.D or a laggy special for the offensive). This often sets up another dp+C break (9 frame move or less to beat it). Usually, opponents miss a couple frames and if they try and take back the iniative you can land a dp+C. The only problem with this strat is that dp+C break has shitty priority and tends to trade more than it beats other moves.

[Tea]

Feedback on that post? Don’t wanna sound too mean, but most of that stuff was kinda obvious.
Don’t use hcb+C or c.D?
It’s not everyday you’ll land it, but the damage from hcb+C is silly to ignore, especially Guard Cancelled where it can really shine.
Short Jump D hcb+C combos in the corner. (short jump UP C works too ^^;)
c.D is his longest ranged normal and is pretty fast. It also causes a knockdown where you can run up and do ground/short jump crossups.
j.b+C combos with C+D and c.C. Short jump b+C C+D is crazy good.
If you like j.AC j.A super, why no j.AC hcb+C? Pretty sweet in my book.
That’s one thing I didn’t know… I use it a lot, but didn’t realize that j.AC chain has such a sweet advantage on hit. You can land j.A and c.A+B after! (hit late though)
Also close D qcb+B combos.
c.A+B is a great way to land every super and qcf+D on CH.
at max range… c.A+B qcf,qcf,qcf+C
mid range… c.A+B qcf,qcf+D
short range… c.A+B d+A+C… j.A qcf,qcf+A or c.C qcf,qcf+B.
Lot’s more missing, just covering some outstanding ones.

[System_1]

I always thought Dong Hwan’s P-Power QCFx2 +D was pretty tight, it guard crushes nicely.

[Khiempossible]

I always thought Dong Hwan’s P-Power QCFx2 +D was pretty tight, it guard crushes nicely.

until people start beating it with a s.A everytime. In fact they can probably interupt it with bigger stuff, but if it doesn’t combo, I ain’t using it.

In fact, generally, P supers are awful. 2 S supers (or do I have the P and S backwards) do way more damage than one 2 bar super.

Tea:

Thanks for feedback though. The thing was meant to be a FAQ, read by new d.hwan players. I can add your combos, though they aren’t exactly BnB.

I don’t know why you’d do jump in -> hcb+P though, when you can do jump in -> sc.D qcf+B c.C mixup/super. It’s as much and potentially more damage.

your c.AB combos are they CH only? if so c.AB (regular hit) fake cancel j.A super is fucking nuts.

I can’t see comboing into qcfx2+D ever worth it. First, it’s easier to land j.qcfx2+A j.qcfx2+A dp+C and second it’s approximately 5x as much damage for just as much bar.

about c.D, I don’t use this move too much, cause if you’re predictable with it, your opponent can land a CH s.AB combo for free.

[Emil]

With Dong Hwan, Corner, you can do:

qcf+B, Close D(1 hit), feint, Close D(1 hit), feint, early jump A, qcfx2+A(air), qcfx2+A(air), dp+C

Edit. You seem to be missing alot of the qcf+B combos…but I guess you can just mention you can start any combo off of them. And yes, if you feint cancel without counterhit, you can still land a jump A.

[Atb_555]

Anyone know any good pressure strings for both Dong and Jae?

BTW hows that Garou Tutorial going?

[Emil]

Anyone know any good pressure strings for both Dong and Jae?

BTW hows that Garou Tutorial going?

With Dong, learn how to feint cancel his close D(1 hit), with f+AC. You can get in about Close D’s this way, mixup with crouch B after a feint, or feint into low jump A. Crouch B, Crouch C is also good for pressure. Crouch B, qcf+B, followed up by any pressure string works too.

[Atb_555]

Cool thanks. I like Garou especially for its pressure strings which really opens the game up unlike any other imo.