I don’t think the team element is something holding back FG’s. RTS’s do fine in a 1v1 format.
I’m not going in depth here, but I think you guys are a little off on this one. There is no future for 2D fighting games in America. But it’s not due to gameplay.
Why?
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No one is making them. If there was a heavily marketed 2-Dimensional Fighting Game that was at least as good as Third Strike, you could possibly revive 2D Fighting Games. Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat are the only well known 2D Fighting games out there. Nobody plays Street Fighter, and Mortal Kombat isn’t a good game.
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Graphics. American gamers want good graphics. For some reason, nobody feels like releasing a high-definition 2D fighter with insane 3D backgrounds and flawless sprites. The closest we’re going to get is the new Street Fighter on XBL. I guarantee it’s going to sell well too.
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Few online communities.
At the moment, there is no future to 2D fighting games commercially. Nobody is going to release an amazing 2D fighter. Instead, people are going to suck up to the lesser 3D fighters such as Soul Calibur 4 and Tekken 6. They are much more shallow and don’t have advanced techniques found in 2D-fighters. Also, moves don’t look as cool compared to 2D fighters. Perhaps people should be shown this?
There’s so much bullshit, here. And I know you didnt say all 3D fighters have LESS depth than 2D fighters. Holy shit. And moves dont look as cool? O lawd someone help this child.
Fighters need to come up with better single-player ideas. This genre is just worthless in that area right now, and I think a better job here could draw in more gamers and thus more potential tournament players. I know some FPS guys who got their start with Goldeneye on the N64, as that game’s single-player is still loved to this day.
-Josh
I just want to survive long enough to watch live people throw fireballs at each other.
Hell maybe my old ass will be able to compete as a black Gen Fu or something.
Zass:
While I do see your point and there is definitely some validity there, I still dont see it as the answer. My original point still stands, no matter how low or high the barrier to entry is, there has to be an effort on the part of the PLAYER to learn the game. Did you know how to play SFII when it first came out? Of course not! NO ONE DID.
And while the barrier to entry may have either been discouraging or encouraging depending on the circumstances, you still made a conscious choice to (regardless of the BOE) learn the game. So if a person is going to play fighters they must accept that there will be a learning curve.
This applies to all games. It just seems that instead of stepping up to the challege, new gamers simply want easier games.
But I do agree that it can be intimidating to new players and that some games do have an excess of moves (some of which are never even used by players).
Crap:
Oh man where do I start
GG hardly had any ads for it because no one cared.
So your arguing that the reason GG wasnt as popular was because of lack of ads. And there were lack of Ads because it wasnt popular? Does that make any sense to you? No offence but this is a ridiculous argument and Im not going to get into this here (the topic isnt about GGs popularity, I merely mentioned it to make a point). If anything you proved my point by mentioning FF7. Most people (in the US) brought FF7 because of the buzz (Magazines/websites/etc), people that never played RPGs before. Of course the original RPG heads that loved the series got it too, but look at the legions of FF/RPG fans that arose from that game alone. Why did they have to wait for Gamepro/EGM or whatever mag to push the game on them? Why couldnt they go to a little research themselves and find out if they would like the game. Ill tell you why, BECAUSE THEY ARE DRONES. This is no different then the 1,000s of little girls that buy paris Hilton bags or b.spears albums. The mass media bombs them with trash and most simply buy what they are told is “good”. Why do you think we have SOOOOO many music mags? (yes some are really about reviewing and suggesting good music but, most are selling someones product for backdoor cash or favors). This is just the way business works.
Pherai
But GG never even got the time of day. Do you know for a fact that none of them continued to play T5? Either way, it got a chance because people could feel like they were speaking the language of Tekken without having to learn rc’s and a bunch of other nonsense. I’d say your example really just points out how few people are interested in competitive gaming. People who aren’t interested in playing competitively don’t like losing.
Actually yea I do know for a fact that most of them didnt continued to play T5:rofl: (this was around the time T5 had just come out for ps2 which was a little over 1 year ago:wonder:, I watched some keep it up and get really good. Others never touched the game again, discouraged by the better players). But again, that wasnt my point. My point was that people are really fickle about what games they consider to be easy and hard and that people still need to learn the games. THE PLAYER STILL NEEDS TO WANT TO LEARN THE GAME. No amount of dumbing down will make a sucky player better. T5 has a lot of depth, but its not obvious to the casual on looker.
As for the GG boom comment. That is based on my experiences with GG players when, the Japanese version of GG began being imported over here. I never mentioned any Capcom game, so I dont see why you compared the two. I merely said that the GG fanbase grew once anime/manga media began promoting GGX. Again this really doesnt have to do with the topic of this thread. I mentioned it as an example of the drone like nature of some gamers (not saying all GGX players are drones either). A lot of the GGX/X2 players I played only picked up playing the GG series after reading about it in some anime/manga mag or website. They would have never touched the game otherwise. One of the best players I know is exactly like this. New gamers dont want to take a chance on different/new games. This is especially true for anything 2-D. If its not on IGN.com or in the current EGM, theyll never hear about it because they wont go and LOOK FOR AN INTERESTING DIFFERENT GAME.
I do agree that it takes a lot of time to get to high level play when picking up a new game. But isnt that what makes it high-level play? (yea another topic :wgrin:)
And yea, MB could use a few more dudes in the mix 4 (ps2 version) does not cut it lol. 
i agree with this wholly. i think the new Smash seems to be working on this area with the Subspace Emissary single player adventure mode, and it looks very well done and thorough. aside from that and VF4Evo Quest mode i can’t think of any fighters that have a comparable single player experience. when people bring up these arguments usually they’ll say, “oh, it’s because people don’t play fighters, they only play Halo and GTA in the US now”. which is untrue, because people play all kinds of shit now, FPS, RPGs have a huge player base in the US, and games like BioShock do well among a bunch of people, which, if you’ve played it, is an unusual, niche game. it’s because among fighters there’s no emphasis on the player, and, to give an example of how to put the microcosm to the macrocosm, there’s no unification of gamers from all over directly into the genre, sort of like what WoW has done. something like a fighting game MMO like KwonHo could be the answer but it would have to be very, VERY polished, well done, and easy to get into but difficult to master. but overall unless the focus is on the gamer, and on high reward with little risk, i think as far as the future of 2D fighters go, you’re going to be limited to:
-Wii VC
-Xbox Live Arcade
-Local Arcades / competition ( if you’re lucky )
-doujin or emulation based p2p netplay
I never said dumbing down the game will make a sucky player better, but it eases the learning process. If you think there are only people out there that will either never give any fighting games a chance, or will dedicate their time to even the most difficult to learn fighting games, then you’ll never see my point, because there is a middle ground, and GG is about as far from it as a game could get.
Because calling it a boom is a huge overstatement. GG still has a fringe scene, if it even has one. Try finding comp outside of FFA, PZ or TGA, and you are probably out of luck. I compared it to Capcom games because they actually have a scene, while boom would imply GG has a scene, which it barely does. I may be wrong because I don’t know many players, but this is how it appears to me.
What does this mean? Just picking up a random game from the shelves? I don’t think this is something that is holding fighting games back. Like it or not, marketing has always been a huge factor in all commerce.
Amen.
No im arguing that people didn’t know a thing about GG because of lack of ads leading to it not being popular>no one caring about the game at the time. Marketing plays a HUGE role in what games will get more attention and you damn well know this. GG hardly had any backup and was never really known outside japan.
It’s called “hype”. Think about it, it had CG graphics, which was considered “cutting edge” at the time, and people were practically sold on it. Magazines are there to help generate buzz around it. It’s always up to the consumer to decide whether or not they want to buy the game. How well the game is marketed also plays a huge role but it always comes down to the consumer no matter what. Thing was with FF7, the CG cutscenes were the only things you knew about (if TV ads were any indication and “motion pictures” are the best way to advertise anything) and as I said earlier, people were sold on that because in most cases they thought the game would look like that. Despite that being a lie, the game sold millions because of the heavy marketing. It also helps that Final Fantasy was a hit on every console it made it’s bed on so the name brand also plays a role in sales. Think about it, no handheld besides nintendo brands have succeeded. PSP comes from Sony and everyone was on their clock towers when ps2 was around. And there isn’t a gap between the two new kids on the block.
Yeah i’m a little urked by that too…
It wasn’t just magazines. Hell in the 90’s people barely read those damn things. You forget tv ads and those showed TEH LEET (BS) CG SCENES and no gameplay shots at all.
Hype is a better term for it. But saying people are drones hardly excuses anything for why the first GG game fell on it’s ass everywhere but japan. Because yeah, it didn’t have ANY advertisements (or wasn’t as hype heavy as FF7)
I agree. I’m pretty tired of 7 little battles. Do over. Thats cool for arcade and all… but not for console. It’d be nice to have a VF4-esqe Kumite mode. Even if you there are no items for your character, it be nice to just to be able to continue on and on, facing random fighters in different arenas and alt costumes etc, with gradual difficulty increase. I hate it when fighters come with their own stages too and you always fight them in the same stage every time. I’m all about variety.
You miss the point. When you pick up SFII, you might not know how to play yet, but the set of basic skills you need in order to get good are all very obvious. By putting in your quarter and hitting start, all you need to do is select a character and you’re in a game. The only thing between you and learning how to play is a set of six attack buttons and a control stick.
Contrast this with, say, CvS2. The first thing you’re required to do is choose your groove. What is a groove? Fuck, you don’t know that. It explains in the little captions to the left. C-groove gives you air guard. Sounds simple enough. It gives you roll. Uh, okay. Level 2 super cancelling. What the fuck is that? Let’s check out A-groove. Oops! Time’s up. You’re stuck with level 2 super-whatever.
Okay, now, pick your three characters. Seems simple enough. You would have had your hands full learning to use just one, but hell. Whatever. Okay, now you’re required to choose your ratios. You don’t know what a ratio is. Okay, just give the big one to the first guy and move on. Now your three characters and your three opponents are displayed on the screen. There appears to be yet another set of options for you to choose from here, but damned if you have time to figure out what they are before the match finally begins.
Okay. You’re in the match. You figure out what each button does quickly enough, and you’re getting a feel for the control stick. You’re not doing too bad for yourself until the other guy fills up that little bar on the bottom of the screen and beats you with some fucking crazy ass move with shadows behind it that you’ve never seen in your life. What random shit was that? This game sucks.
Welcome to the high barrier of entry–way higher than SFII, at any rate.
quoted for truth.
Seriously, to get the casuals back, this is the things you need:
- 2 life meters
- some nice graphics (High-res 2D or 3D chars fighting on a 2D plane)
- great sound and visual FX (you must feel like you’re giving a beating)
- a super meter (casuals love those flashy moves and the comeback factor)
- a little bit of eye candy
- a 30-sec video tutorial that explains everything (if you can’t explain your game in that time then you’ll fail)
- good promo (like claiming that you’re doing a next-gen fighting game, or you reinventing the genre)
With this you got some casuals in the bag.
From there, add in some meat inside so that the hardcore also gets satisfied.
There you go people, your fighting game.
good
thats good ideas. I also have to agree with the cat that said 1 player experience. But I look at my dream fighter to ultimately revive the scene has to have these:
1st of all. To get into ppl’s brains that the game exist lol. Attractive Title name, Advertisement: maybe a free demo combo with a purchase of a popular game series-vice versa, a household company that new gamers know to publish/develop it, it has to bring a new formula never seen in any fighter, hybrid of deep/easy learning curve, easy to obtain (mvc2) and most of all word of mouth.
My Dream Game*:
Legend Mode: For the new generation gamers especially.
Campaign-1 to 4 players team or single fight against bosses, ex character versions, missions (ggxx) get to choose different paths (Guardian Heroes), multiple endings, a lot of things to do like an rpg, Rivalry Intros for each and every turnout (svc Chaos :wasted:), Battle Fantasia graphics (2.5), Character themes ala MvC1, rememberable epic and engaging story, difficulty (creampuff-elite) and that little roulette thing for when you get handled by broken bosses (KOF). Also a lot of wacky mini game modes never hurt a fighter in my opinion. Like kid mode or something.
Versus:
1 v 1 mode
Teams/FFA/Cross fever mode (a fixed GG Isuka if that were possible)
Challenge Mode (different modes of versus)
Every character should be GG/VF balance playable, different type choices of characters maybe 4 or 5 types ex. power, speed, alpha (SamSho, Last Blade 2 or MvC2), at least 12-18 fighters no more than that, very fast paced gameplay it seems to be the most praised nowadays, and no fuckin customization systems at all.
The gameplay should be like the marvel series or CvS2 Eo had for both kinds of players. A simple mode and a expert mode for doing moves. But except a penalty for simple. You would have easy operation like down, down punch for super, and other things as well. But your character would have a serious handicap like bad at taking damage (Akuma 3S), easy guard break, short stun meter and can only use one super desperation every match. While the hardcore vet gets the steep job of learning the motions, and stuff. But at a normal setting, and free form combat.
Basically I’d have a different system for both players built into the choices.
Simple Pros:
Faultless and Air Faultless Defense-no damage (hold back, and hold a button)
Very easy Moves/Combos/Supers
Super meter builds a lil more than expert
Cons:
Bad Healthbar
Weak Guard
Stun meter is bad
Expert Pros:
Garou’s Just Defend. JD cancel into a move
Regular Lifebar/stun gauge/guard
fill in blank, etc.
Cons:
Hitting up training mode.
well it’s just a dream. But it’s throwed when I think about it. Endless replayability.
Hell, you know what? Just invite some friends over that don’t play fighters, and get them started. I’ve done this with a few people. Sure, they’re worse than I am (and that’s pretty damn bad) but at least they’re playin’ 3S and UMK3 rather than sticking to no gaming or their fps’s
They could do like Unreal Championship 2 for Xbox did and combine shooting and armed combat. Other than that, Halo and FPS are going to be on top for a long time.