"For Mother Russia!" Zangief Video Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1322

I do believe in Lariat in footsies vs Rose, but more as a tool to get in fast and mindfuck the opponent and less as in tool that you fall back in on the neutral (like against Bison, for an example, since if you do a misread you’re eating the same damage you would if you fucked up your lights, but without using meter to get in, but against Rose you have other tools to get in more reliably like whiff punishes or stuffing her buttons with your mids, also her AA is really spacing-based so being able to do regular or short jump with knees, j.MK or j.HP is bound to work as long as you keep mixing it up at the right ranges).

The way I deal with the fireball trap is forcing the Rose player to waste meter by standing just in range for EX GH so they try to FADC back after doing a fireball to catch me with U1 until they have one or no meters, after that I just stand on EX GH range to force the player to stop throwing fireballs and fall back on her normals. Basically, don’t engage the fireball trap unless you want to eat that damage to get it out of the way (only viable if you got a knockdown early in the round and got some damage out of it).

Also, learn the spacing of punishable spirals, you were doing SPD’s without discrimination and you should have been punished for some of them.

As a sidenote, I’ve been playing vs Ken lately and I find it such an ass matchup to play now, everything they nerfed for Gief or buffed for Ken directly affected the matchup and it went from being 6-4 Gief to 6-4/6.5-3.5 Ken imo.

Ken’s new walking speed + the slight SPD nerf makes it easier for Ken to space his stepkick to make it safe, it went from having to be done at the absolute max range to be safe to just getting into a long range (where he can be if he wants to since now you don’t get to try and force him to be at bad ranges) and doing it, the st.MP hurtbox nerf makes it so instead of bullying or trading Ken’s stepkick it gets beaten by it more often than not. Losing LP GH makes his sweep not punishable again, and the range nerf makes it so whenever you whiff punish you absolutely need to use meter to get the damage and the mixup. It just feels like he gets to dictate the pace of the match from start to finish outside of Gief landing a suplex or Ultra somehow. It’s pretty ass imo, but I’m wondering what you guys think.

1323

There’s no doubt Ken beats Gief. I think even Snake and Chris T both said that as well. Bottomline is that Gief just isn’t good now and basically has no tools to work with.

1324

Thanks for the feedback from before guys, I’ve been working primarily on using better optimized dmg combos (utilizing cl.mk) and working hard on getting the light punch os’s into Greenhand down and my game feels a lot deadlier. Just played against a pretty good balrog and I didn’t feel fenced out like before. The light punch os did wonders, and being able to do optimal damage kept me from having to get as many mixup situations going like before.

1325

Dude. OP is referring to different trap. Soul Spark + Anti-air U1 :slight_smile:

Yeah. Rose burning 2 EX bars randomly is a long term losing play.

1326

I know. I consider the U1 trap to be both things considering that any decent Rose player should be able to adapt on the go for the need of either fireball FADC backdash U1 or fireball AA U1. That’s what I meant by “don’t engage it” because you’re just risking eating too much damage to get something not on that level. Focus on trying to blowup her normals instead.

1327

The close MK has been a disappointing buff, due to the rarity of using it. Not many viable setups.

  • 1.04 nerfed LPGH range killed the Close MK. Far MP. Far LK xx LPGH (whiff) combo. But the combo was dependent on “wide” characters
  • Close MK. Far MP. Far LK xx EXGH is still beastly
  • Instead your probably looking for Close MK. Crouch LK. Far LK xx LPGH etc

But what I meant by USF4 combos, is more to do with the +5 frames on hit of crouch LK.

  • Couch LP xx Crouch LK. Crouch LK. Far LK xx LPGH
  • Crouch LK. Crouch LK. Crouch LK. Far LK xx LPGH = Great damage
  • Also makes Crouch LK. Far MP. Far LK xx LPGH more appealing

I agree. When I figured out how to do standing LP and crouching LP o/s, I ended up doubling/tripling my win rate. Especially by o/s into EXGH into RFC into AS. While far standing LK has MORE range than the jabs, its not a good counter poke to many of the better ranged pokes in the game, many of which are standing and have more range than the crouching pokes. Standing jab beats those and to some extent you can use crouching jab.

“The pen is mightier than the sword.” - That’s how I feel when I take half of their life with a well placed standing jab o/s against Adon, Dudley, Balrog when they press buttons.

1328

The only combo with cl.mk I’ve been using is after a body splash, because of the mentioned limited situations cl.mk can be used

I can’t remember the numbers,
But compared to my original preferred splash combo of : splash, cr.lk x 3-4 xxx lp/exgh possibly into red focus cancel, replacing the cr.lk’s with cl.mk, far st. mp, far st. lk gives me way more damage (maybe stun too? Haven’t checked stun numbers at all but I’ve been getting dizzies on opponents after doing that splash combo and it feels unexpected)

Even if I don’t land the far lk after cl.mk it’s still more damage than I was putting out beforehand.

The only thing about the jab os’s thats givng me issues is that I keep getting double jabs at times, and if I’m os-ing ex gh under the jabs but I go too fast i get ppp lariat and look like an idiot…

1329

I forgot to do this when I made it back home from Texas Showdown, but a friend recorded my final match in pools. Please give some feedback.

My hardest thing, especially in a shoto match, (well, really just regular ryu because the range of his low forward is godly) is finding the rhythm of the player’s normals fast, as I spent the majority of the first match letting him whiff cr.mk and sweep constantly. I also tend to do too many consecutive cr.lk’s/jabs on block against character’s with dp and get clipped for it. I think I’m just not used to baiting reversals out from my cr.lk on block because the people I usually play against aren’t able to fit a dp motion in the three frame gap. I guess a cr.jab string would be safer then since it can be chained and even if not chained, the gap would be 2 frames. (Is this a correct analysis? I’ve never looked that closely at the data on cr.lk/cr.jab but so many instances of getting “clipped” by reversals primarily in casuals has made me rethink my method of pressure, to stop strings like I saw Snake Eyez doing to see if they were mashing, then quickly walk up a bit and keep doing cr.lk’s)

The rest of the match wasn’t recorded, but he switches back to cody, and the match went like a typical Cody/gief matchup imo.

1330

There’s a reason why the bread and butter starts with crouch LP, and not crouch LK. This is one of them! (Plus, you can’t option select as good)

Crouch LK is +1 on block and starts up in 4 frames. Thus a 3 frame gap on block.
Crouch LP is +2 on block and starts up in 4 frames. Thus a 2 frame gap on block if you link or no gap if you chain.
I find after 3 to 4 crouching LP chains, push back creates a gap, or maybe I’m not mashing it.

By the way your safest string to confirm into LPGH/EXGH is Zangief’s target combo:
crouch LP xx close standing LK (special cancellable) xx LPGH/EXGH/Lariat

To hit the crouching LK links, you have to commit to the second crouching LK whether or not the first is blocked.
At +1 on block, your open to DF, DF reversals, charged reversals (if your predictable). And Ultras if your unlucky by ONE frame.

Crouching LK starter is good

  • if you predict a jump after SPD-MPGH
  • if you mix it up with crouching LP, after SPD-MPGH
  • if they fear the cross up, and you empty jump into crouching LK
  • if they don’t have a DF, DF reversal

For them to constantly hit you out of a blocked crouching LK, means, your too predictable.

You should mix it up your pressure with either:

  • cr.LP xx cr.LP xx cr.LK … etc
  • cr.LP xx cr.LK. cr.LK … etc
    *Especially if they have a charged reversal like flash kick.

Just gotta adjust to the latest fashion trend and stay one step ahead of your opponent.
I recommend a gap after 2" strings, so you can still hit confirm into a combo.

  • crouching LP xx crouching LP … gap
  • crouching LP xx crouching LK … gap
  • crouching LP xx far standing LK … gap
  • croching LP xx crouching LP … gap
  • crouching LK … gap

Slight pause for 1 or 2, checking the “reversal” notification on the side.
Or just chance it and DB pause, then go for the final 2 strings, to still be able to pressure or hit confirm into LPGH/EXGH

  • crouching LK. standing LK xx LPGH/EXGH
  • standing LK. standing LK xx LPGH/EXGH
1331

What kind of technique are you using? Just have to look into it.
a) Partial motion: F+LP or DF+LP, then D, F + LP/PP (hold)
b) Chained: Two rapid jabs or one jab xx GH
c) Speedy input: LP, F, D, F + LP/PP (hold) before the LP recovery frames finish

Double jabs is a good outcome.
If your getting PPP Lariat, I don’t know, except this is where arcade stick and pad differ in their execution.
But in theory, if you input it cleanly, PP should work with 3P button.

Don’t forget to look for the o/s xx MPGH when they have around 10% of health remaining!

1332

I’ve fixed my issues with the OS and stopped worrying about the double jabs. I use df cr. jab and finish the dp motion while quickly pressing lp+fierce punch ( play on pad with default buttons). This has made the os work consistently and without any errors occuring.

This has left me with alot to think about in regards to how I can mixup opponents. So many micro-options, so many different ways to approach opponents(mentally) in the mixup game. This is what I enjoy about Zangief.

1333

Here’s my match against El Cubano Loco. You can see what I meant by when I said I eventually ran out of steam at the end. I see alot of things I did wrong, and I want another chance to play him again one day. Really exhausted at the moment, so the only big question in my mind is, if vega does ex barcelona from the corner to the other side of the screen like Loco does, would U2 actually reach it? I didn’t go for it ever in this match because all of my attempts to do it against vegas has failed miserably unless they’re anywhere near mid-screen-ish, otherwise I just use greenhand to recover positioning.

I’m also clearly not proficient enough with the jab os’s yet. This tournament was my first time utilizing it in my gameplay and not worrying about screwing it up. It’s gotten alot better since Texas Showdown though.

1334

You do a green hand to get close to EX Barcelona and then react with either U2 or EX GH, U2 if he goes above you, EX GH if he goes to the other side of the screen.

I liked your reads, but I feel like sometimes you went for tougher reads with less payoff, like reading jumps and going for jumps yourself instead of going for a meaty and things like that, your footsies are good and your patience is good though, I really liked watching your match.

1335

Is Cubano Loco really that bad? You could have easily U2’d on reaction like on a dozen different occasions.

You blew it at 10:16-- learn a real setup, I have no idea what you were trying to do there.

didn’t see you use a cr lp/ st lk/ gh os a single time

you have virtually no neutral game, you just throw out s. mk, which isn’t a good move, and then do random jump in and pray for the best.

1336

Reaction U2? I see why you got banned on EH…

1337

yes idiot, read above comment

1338

I’d like to see one of your matches to see why you talk so much shit.

1339

It’s the weekend, so just going to post my initial thoughts.

Level of Vega: Can’t say for sure, but I don’t see many of Vega’s footsie and staple combos used often

  • Far LK. Crouch LP. Crouch MP xx EX Wall Dive
  • Crouch MK. Crouch MP xx EX Wall Dive
  • Far HK xx RFC
  • kara throw
  • Didn’t pressure Zangief’s wake up with corpse hops etc So Yomi was a little weak.

Vega’s long ranged pokes are vulnerable to jabs and FA (except his Far HK when it hits twice)

Crouching LP and especially Standing LP xx LPGH/EXGH eats up Vega’s mid range pokes. Far MP, Far MK, Crouch HP

Use crouching LK for his low hitting pokes. Like Crouch MK

There were countless times in the match, where a well placed standing jab, to counter Vega’s MP or MK, would allow you to take half of Vega’s life with the RFC.

Overall, you didn’t force El Cubano Loco to have to play at a higher level, whereas Snake Eyez or Vangief would have, by counter poking with the lights. Every time El Cubano was using a medium or heavy poke, he was taking risk. And he was spamming it too! Even to the point where you could have sneaked in a lucky L2 FA to take off a third of his health and more with a post mix up.

He did not use feints often. He did not use defensive pokes often. He didn’t have the need to draw out your option selects. But then, he didn’t have to!

The standing LP xx LPGH/EXGH o/s will take the match. Allow you to get in and play the LPGH and EXGH game. Especially considering Vega has no reversal except U2.

If the opponent jumps back a lot to beat follow up EXGH/MPGH after SPD-MPGH. I feel far crouch HK is a superior way to deal with back dash. It’s less rewarding, you get the safe jump BUT not the cross up, but it’s safer. Beats back dashes, goes even against back jump, loses to block. But you don’t get blown up by a full jump back combo. You can also delay the startup slightly so you can add in a block+throw tech+far crouch HK. This is crucial against characters that have superior short duration back dashes that can’t be option selected.

That I’m not sure. I think the answer is NO. I think U2 has slower flight than EX Wall dive, but the only way to catch it on block, is to instantly reversal jump into a rising U2 and catch it when it rebounds off the wall, thus, buying you more time. But the GH does seem good in theory, just have to test it when I’m in front of the game.

1340

I got a lot of messages with tips on how to fight Akuma, when I played really poorly and lost at Kakutop league. But ive never lost to an Akuma before, and I am very confident in the matchup. So luckily I got the runback and I am happy of the way I played it.

1341

Damn the LP GH nerf killed this forum lmao. Anyways, we had a little tournament this saturday. Please critique my ass if you have time.

1:24:17 : vs Goro GI ( Rose)
4:14:42 : vs Master (Makoto)
4:27:55 : vs Chris (Chun and Balrog)
4:56:44 : vs Eightgrade (Akuma) (you can tell I’m tired as fuck by this point because I haven’t eaten anything in hours)

I have a ton of troubles vs Master, normally I wreck Makotos but he gives me so much trouble it’s insane. That’s the match I’m worried about the most since I never have any footage of it to see what I’m doing wrong, I already noticed some places where I should do standing jab and some ranges where I should be doing a ton of jabs to stop his dash-in nonsense but if there’s anything else I’m missing please let me know. Also imo I played great vs Goro in the Rose matchup so that’s cool to watch.

Thanks for your time guys