You never land jumping HP on jump-ins?
It doesn’t hurt to have a high damage combo like that in your pocket if the situation arises (it’s not THAT uncommon to get a couple hard knockdows and splash attempts in a set).
And I think anything that combos into EXGH xx RFA xx U1 is gonna do a shit ton of damage. Gief should have a shot at that at least once per match.
close MK is 5 frame start-up, so its very possible to reaction jump projectiles with Jumping HP or HK, maybe even Jumping MK. You just have to ensure your spacing is close enough to land that combo. You could get lucky, neutral jumping or back jumping to whiff punish key forwarding moves such as Rekka, Scissor kick or Dash Punch.
I’m more interested in the usefulness of that gruesome hit confirm: close MK. far MP. st.lk xx LPGH
On block, 2 frame gap between the first 3 hits - makes it a nice anti-jump block sequence
5 frame start-up means that it may be used after SPD-LPGH, when we are +6. Need to check out if close MK comes out after that game.
As a hit confirm, I don’t think it can replace the bread and butter: cr.lp cr.lp cr.lk
Due to the polarizing of close MK on block. The opponent either reversals or back dashes to escape. If every Zangief on the planet, is going for this hit confirm, the opponent would be right to random Ultra after blocking the close MK.
Going to be interesting to see, how this advantageous position, close MK’s +2 on block is handled by Snakez Eyez and Cantona
Far mp is always unreliable in combos since it often whiff on crouching opponents
Played vs. Gamerbee Eryu at DHS winners bracket: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ3WL9oB_dY - (About the slk XX spd whiffpunishes, it was a mixture of nerves and a new gate on the stick square instead of octa.)
Also played vs. Ixion(Dan) in the winners bracket: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFVAitdd_GU
You played really well Veggey. Just watched all 3 of your dreamhack matches. Big Fan. Your Abel play was impressive also. I have to go over it in more depth, to see what you did right. There were some really nice catches with the LPGH during your pressure strings, to catch the villain’s back dashes. From just one viewing, this is what stood out to me.
VS Evil Ryu:
- Clearly, the option select poke xx LPGH command, made you whiff SPD. Just gotta review that
- I would prefer st.lk xx GH due to lesser risk, than cr.lk xx GH.
- Gamberbee was smart to not go auto-pilot option select cr.mk xx Hadouken FADC into XYZ
- I really have doubts with landing U1 after LPGH, because its the obvious primary threat. 50% of their health says they should always be looking for it. Worked for you on those occasions, until Gamberbee adjusted. He made sure, he was air-born 10 frames AGO!
- During the mid range neutral game, it appeared as those your mind was set SOLEY on whiff punishing with cr.lk xx LPGH. I think you gotta be mixing it up, as to not be predictable. Add kara EXGH and early jumping MK. I know every Zangief is saving up for RFC but it reduces your long term strategy. Narrows your game into all o/s and hit confirms end in LPGH.
- Evil Ryu didn’t use any Axe Kicks for big damage, not sure why.
VS Dhalsim:
- I didn’t see you mix in jumping MK, as your jump approach.
- There were periods when you were neutral jumping the fireball, putting you at risk from st.HK. What was your thinking?
- Probably use more FADC absorbs when there’s no yoga fire on screen.
VS Bison:
- cr.lp xx GH at key ranges
- I think you could have punished both Bison and Dhalsm’s teleport lag with Abel Ultra.
Again, well played.
vs evil ryu:
I thought you could done more hard reads after his backdash when you hit him with a combo to lp hand. Maybe going to forward dash into ultra or even another lp hand. You lost a lot of life just from evil ryu’s cr.mk maybe use more s.mk instead to counter? and just use lvl 1 focus for just the fireball?
vs sim:
I think you had the right idea neutral jumping sim’s fireball but I wished you did more neutral jump hp on sim’s s.rh afterwards. I think you did it once or twice. I personally like to do cr.rh in this matchup since if you’re lucky you can score a knockdown from sim’s s.hp. On the last game at the last fireball I thought you were going to do a raw ultra 2 since sim more than likely will neutral jump mp after the fireball.
Good stuff Veggey, seriously great play. It kind of feels like capcom messed with the “input shortcuts” though, because I find myself getting spd rather than gh when you go from holding back to the dp motion.
Good shit Veggey.
I completely agree with Chief vs Evil Ryu, you gotta use EX GH’s to keep him legit because saving up for Super is certainly not a viable long-term strategy vs him, if you get it, by all means use it, but don’t make it your key option to win in that matchup.
Also, I’m a big fan of U2 in that matchup to seriously limit his options after landing a green hand, jumping out is less viable, LP GH is better for chasedowns and SPD beats blocking, but that’s in every shoto matchup for me. To each his own.
Wonderful to see this. Some nice videos there chief713.
I agree with most of what you guys say, I need to get thoose things right. But yeah, the s.lk XX spd thing is really weird, it happens way to often now. It might be because ive switched to Square-gate from Octa-gate, but I don’t know. Also I am having some issues with reactional EX-GH on fireballs with Square-gate, I totally agree with you guys, I let Gamerbee do too many fireballs, many of them I shouldve been able to stop, and if I dont learn to react fast enough I wont be able to beat this kind of E.Ryu.
vs. Dhalsim, what can I say. I so agree, shouldve done U2. been to long since I faught a Dhalsim to remember. The match haunts me in my sleep, especially the jump mk hit whiff spd -_^ haha.
Il try some short sweeps.
I def agree that when I see someone backdash that often, I should not be afraid to go ham on the greenhand to greenhand.
Sidenote: The giefs in Japan that ive been playing/seen play are fucking insane, they are like Aquasilks BUT with whiffpunishes. To beat them you cant really do much other than WAIT and punish, but then you will win ofc 
For the EXGH, I ride/mash the F to DF of the square gate when in range, and press HK~LP+MP, just like a kara throw.
With Square gate, so many choices for the o/s x GH. I like the ones that go F, DB + LK or LP, DF or F + 2P with the added crouch block (the illusion of safety)
Yes. The major issue being EXGH RFC U1. haha. Not saying its bad, its really really good **if **you survive numerous LPGH games and live to land it.
Incredible matches Veggey. Do you play on a pad or stick? Sorry to ask a stupid question, but I couldn’t tell in the video. I was curious about all the geif players standing on this as well. I’ve been using an arcade stick for a long time but noticing that a lot of grappler players are using pads.
On a pad, you have that advantage of a fast 360 or 720. By twirling your thumb on the analogue stick and smoothly riding the gate. Hugo’s standing U1 with 8 pre-jump frames would be ideal when done that way, in my opinion.
On an arcade, stick, you practically have to go square gate, as finding the diagonals is difficult, when you want to forward/back jump or crouch block, if you use a circle gate. But then you can’t ride the gate smoothly for a 360/720. You just gotta learn to hit it cleanly, but that can be difficult to be consistent, as evident by the amount of U1’s that turn out to be EX SPD.
I really don’t know how pad players can manage with the more advanced concepts like:
- Plinking, Double or Triple Plinking
- Kara
- Piano - not that we do it much, but what if you wanted to piano either LP, LK, MP to come out, especially after MK
- PPP Lariat or KKK Lariat Throw Tech: LP+MP+HP+LK or LK+MK+HK+LP, after the LPGH game
- 4 way tech: FA+Throw
- Red Focus
I suppose they macro it.
And then there’s keyboard or hitbox. A modified arcade stick with a dual thumb analogue would be my pick. Should be legal.
One thing’s for certain - pad, stick, hitbox - there is a physical limitation, that you can’t ignore. But you could compensate for it.
- You can plink LK on pad by pressing LP+LK. Obviously only works crouching.
- Just need good hand speed for kara GH. And kara SPD is pretty much the same as on stick, maybe a bit easier
- Map PPP and KKK to one button and just use that + LP/LK
- Never tried to do this, but I doubt I could consistently
- Since PPP is mapped to one button, just do PPP + MK
Should also note that since lariat is one button, doing unthrowable lariat is super easy.
Im playing on an Arcade Stick(MadCatz) in theese matches I was using a Squaregate, because I was leaving for japan 3 days later(there on vacation now.) to get used to the arcades. But Originally I play with Octagonal-Gate on my stick. And I feel like squaregate made me do random spds, and I couldnt react properly to fireballs, might be wrong. But I much prefer octagonal gate as gief, you just tap the stick in the corner for EX-GH. and ride the gate for reactional spds or 720 punishes(blocked.)
It just takes time to get used to it. I really haven’t experienced any accidental SPDs. Everything feels pretty much the same for me. I use the original SFIV TE stick and it’s pretty awesome for me. I used the regular PS3 pad before that. It took some time to transition but I’m definitely better now on stick than I ever was on pad. Although I would say that Zangief is one of the easier characters to play with pad.
Veggey, have you played any top players in the arcades over there? Any top Giefs-Cantona, GoGo, Zangitan, Carlos, etc?
Ive played 50/50 with Akimo, Nishikin. And ive played really close, but lost more to Mago and Nemo. every game ends 3-2, and I take my share of them(not as many as they do obviously.) Ive been losing all games vs. Daigo and Yukisan/Ukisan(Poison) he makes it feel really though. Only played two games with bonchan, won first, lost second. And ive gone 0-1 vs. TOkido(id love more games, because I know this match.) GOt bopped 2-0 vs. Kazunuko, I always knew this match wasnt as free as people said. and with proper footsies it feels really even, need more time to get exped vs. Yun. Also ive lost 3-0 to TKD-Chun Li, but Im not disheartend(?) every single round ends in me getting hit by something smart I havet really been hit by before, so its really intresting to learn how to fight highest level Chun Lis, hes the only Chun giving me troubles here.
Most of my losses I give shoutouts to theese players. There are many really good players, but im winning more vs. the other players, though they are really fierce. But they dont pack on the same heat as the names we know of outside of Asia.
Havent met any of the known Zangiefs, but there are some Giefs that are a mixture of footsiebased and skilled and total randomness. Its like, they know setups, buffers whiffpunishes. But they give away games on going in to hard. I play fairly even with thoose giefs with my Yun, but a couple of them I cant beat without Zangief mirror(uggh).
One thing ive noticed, is how LP-GH on highest level, actually is usable now. If its used clever, and in situations where you have reads on the opponent, or they are buzy looking for something else, consistantly even the best of the players are getting caught offguard and forced to backjump when a random hand is used to come closer.
I got 65.70% winrate with 400 or 500 games played. Mostly played only at Taito-Shinjuku East(Daigo/Topanga arcade.)