81

The game still has content for experienced players but blizz killed the soul of the game, if you were a wow player you know what i am talking about, mmos require commitment but people wants everything and is not necessary to stay 24/7 playing on the pc as they say to obtain the best things in the game, just check the last stats about the dragon soul raid and see the ridiculous ammount of people who completed dragon soul in normal mode since the introduction of LFR, completely absurd, classes and specs are homogenized with a really low skillfloor because people would quit the game before learning a class with a decent learning curve, we can take this as an example of things taken to the extreme.

Devs can make an accesible game without killing the soul of it as you said before, we can make decent tutorials and content to encourage them to be better and devs can remove unnecesary things in the game that bothers new players as fresh lettuce said above we need to see this from a grey “perspective”, MK is a great example of how to make a game for both audiences with great content and competitive gameplay. Another risk when you try to dumb down things when you had a superb gameplay design before the community divides itself and flamewars are really common, hopefully devs can take these examples for their next games because is really hard to please both audiences, fortunately you can find great players who provide great feedback about the games and they learn from that.

Some players have the wrong mentality, KOFXIII is an example, when they see some sick trials or ridiculous combos in youtube they want to do that in a short period of time when the real purpose of those trials is to show the combo skillcap of those characters and some of those trials are really impractical in real matches, you don’t need to land sick combos in order to win a game and the game is really accesible with shortcuts and basic bnb’s and you can be successful,

We had some curious examples this gen about this, maybe the true accesible game that some people wants is really near, we just have to wait :slight_smile:

Unfortunately some of those games are not designed for competition thats why you see a lot of salt and endless drama in their communities, specially COD and WoW, SC2 is a game designed for competition and has a great community that’s why you see a great competitive environment for the game, the difference is quite clear.

As a 2800 player in wow arena you only need to focus in a few things: CD management, Communication and positioning (and of course a nice attitude), because a lot of things are homogenized, and is really easy to do if you have a class with ridiculous CD’s: keybinds, macros, UI, flavor of the month setup etc.

You can create competition on everything but another thing is the environment.

82

Actually League of Legends is the most popular E-Sport and for some reason Evo really likes touting that they pulled in the ~highest e-sport numbers ever~ except for the fact that League of Legends had higher than that number.

83

Every fighting game should strive to be like Smash Brothers Brawl.

Yeah, I fucking said it.

The groundwork is there for something amazing but Sakurai is a complete selfish moron (for both sides of the coin).

84

This is something I totally agree with.

To this day I stand by the fact that if Sakurai were making something other than Smash Bros, tripping would delegate him to a total hack in most people’s eyes.

Also Marmalade Beat I accidentally put the word “fighting” in front of “competitive” in the first quote, and for some reason you really like attacking my generic examples which are meant to apply to games with a budget that are well thought out (but modern fighting games aren’t very well thought out).

PS no one cares about games with little girls in them.

85

A well-thought out budget being the phrase.
If you have to concern yourself over a strict plan, you’re not going for creativity.
And if it would only help the most popular games than the actual community’s growth, then what’s the point?

Okay, now you’re just being retarded.
Only AH3 and Touhou:IAMP/UNL/SWR even have that as a intended quirk out of all the fighters I mentioned, and that’s the same buzzword shit you were condemning a second ago.

And the problem with Brawl is that it requires a shitload of money, a shitload of brand recognition, a shitload of development time, a shitload of people working on it, which unless someone throws a project like Skullgirls ten times the budget as if a small fortune was worthless as a drop in a shitstained bucket, is not going to happen.

86

That’s pretty much a fact though :confused: Games with little girls in them are wholly ignored.

87

Yeah, and that’s going to always happen to a degree, I don’t give a shit about tha,
EDIT: Wait no, you didn’t mean emphasis on the cast, just little girls in general.
Project Justice, Melty Blood, MvC, Darkstalkers, KOF, Skullgirls, TvC, Guilty Gear, Blazblue, Abel was going to be a trap, and much more.

88

Sounds to me like “Wah wah nobody likes my yaoi obsession” or something like that.

BTW - This is the worst fucking thread I’ve ever seen on this forum.

89

Everybody posting to this thread sounds really unhappy.

90

I think you’re reaching a little with my statement.

The characters of Arcana Heart all appeal to a specific kind of person, instead of a broad range of people. Same with touhou games.

91

Do you even know what yaoi means or are you parroting buzzwords too?

Touhou and ZUN are the Valve of Japan, that logic just doesn’t work.
As for AH3, that’s sorta the point that its a niche, and that doesn’t concern the other dozens and dozens of fighters with innovative traits that have faded into history.
Read your own dang sentences.

92

By the way to the guy who made the original post I would recommend you parse your points into more concrete and concentrated pieces. It’s too massive and broad for its own good. Condense bro.

Also stop making petty reaches for hits. Thanks.

93

People complain about “hard to learn”, “hostile environment”, “don’t know what to do”, “knowledge secrecy”, but to this day, since my WW days at the local arcade, I can count the number of players who asked me what they were doing wrong in one hand. I am sure I do not need the thumb.

94

Petty = Of little importance.
AH3 and Touhou as the only ones with little girls as a quirk means those last posts only concern those two.
(Edit: Actually even Touhou doesn’t have little girls really, most of the protagonist cast is supposed physically look like late teens through mid-thirties or fair folk, its just that ZUN can’t draw for SHIT just like Ougon’s original creator, but super deformed meant less spritework.)
Which is not at all imporant to the rest of fighters who couldn’t get decent promotion and mainstream appeal even if they were all manly men + tits like FoTNS and Jojo, or cannot justify the amount of money needed to import them like GvG, and F/UC as retail. That’s just stupid and pointless reaching itself.

All in all: A tutorial, adding a bunch of gimmicks, and stagnating the range of acceptable aesthetics is not going to help the community grow.
That’s actually the road to over-saturation of the same crap over and over.
It would barely help the fighting game genre than just its most popular titles that would have been bought anyway.
Getting people to accept and know the new and obscure, and recogize and learn from what doesn’t stick is through the fanbase and the fanbase that becomes makers of the new and obscure themselves. This goes to any genre and every media before video games.

95

I don’t know if I would say they prefer it. They definitely didn’t intentionally seek it out. It’s not like it says “virtual skinner box!” on the case or anything.

But even without that trick, it does a good job of guiding people by doing things like setting good goals, which fighting games can definitely do.

96

Yeah, I agree with this, I was actually 2400 at the end of last season (and others) on two toons (both Paladins). I haven’t played this season, I got over it after the MMR b.s, I heard they fixed it but it was still aggravating.

The WoW community is an endless amount of bitching rather than discussion, CoD much less so, yes, people bitch about pubs all the time but the MLG format lets them modify the games standard set of rules (banning weapons/perks) to make it more suitable to competitive play. The underlying mechanics such as how the hitscan weapons function from the hip/in difference stances, recovery time from sprinting etc. are solid, it’s just all the superficial stuff like a certain rocket launcher that imbalances the game, which can be fixed competitively. So yeah, people will complain black and blue about the rapid fire, steady aim P90 but that isn’t an option on the pro-circuit.

Unfortunately as a fellow WoW player we don’t have that option, which makes the environment in which the competition takes place temperamental at the devs mercy. MoP, despite being simplified does have the potential to balance the game for once though, so I’m hopeful.

97

Never, a bad thread has been started with these words.

Never.

98

You know this post has no value when you speak in such broad terms and nobody can understand what you mean.
Every game should have random tripping? Every game should have negative hitstun? Every game should have Donkey Kong in it?

99

On the point of developers needing to be experts at their own game: this isn’t strictly necessary. In fact, I’d say some top players are the last people who should be designing games, on account of inaccurately confusing their preferred mechanics with what’s actually sound.

EDIT - Though getting top player testing and feedback can never hurt.

Though it should earn points with 3S apologists, who think only 3S experts, who would very likely be biased in favor of 3S, should criticize the game. See also: Smash players. Or almost any diehard supporter of anything, really.

100

We didn’t have tutorials in the 90’s. We had friends. Something this generation of self-entitled, asperger-ridden, basement dwelling “gamers” seems to lack. And even with all the high-speed internet in his mom’s basement, Johnny Headshot can’t be bothered to look anything up. There’s dozens of websites specifically tailored for this purpose, and hundreds, if not, hundreds of thousands of videos on YouTube. YOUTUBE. It comes down to laziness, really.

I put gamers in quotes, because if you’re not dedicated enough to your hobby to spend enough time with it, you shouldn’t be wearing a label.

Edit:

Yes.