Simple: no meter at all.
But if you have to have super meter, have some way of balancing it out, though the current “come back mechanics” are questionable, and given that SFxT has no comback mechanic (as of last build) we’ll probably never see a properly implemented comeback mechanic unless the next version of MvC comes to some big changes to X-factor.
Anything beyond that is going to vary from game to game based on how they run. God forbid a game like Guilty Gear have SFII like damage, or SF II have positional advantage similar to Melty Blood.
mowr
442
Would you prefer is supers didn’t require meter and they were just normal moves? Of course in the context of SSF4 this would be overpowered so every other move would have to be buffed up to compensate. Oh and of course health would have to increase to compensate for damage.
Oh look there we are back at square 1.
I seriously don’t get why this is so complicated. You just have this thing in your head where meter=bad.
Your complaint appears to be the balancing of EX and super moves anyway. Meter in itself is not inherently bad.
the more post of anemone the more i feel that he really doesnt know what he talks about
its like he argues for the sake of arguing
Your joking right? So because I say no meter I instantly mean that EX and Super moves should be made meterless? There’s no reason to have super moves at all except for some flash. You are really reaching for it now.
The complaint wasn’t about balance of the moves but about the reward you get off of one correct action, be that landing a combo, winning a mixup, of something a kin to landing roundhouse. You’ve already taken life down, and taken positional advantage and momentum, clearly this alone should be enough.
I’d be all for normals and specials doing more damage anyway.
If you want to have a “comeback mechanic” don’t have normal moves/combos do shitty damage. It makes rounds take forever.
tataki
446
The “animu fighter” mechanics in TVC are like they went to forum member mIRC for advice on how an animu fighter looks like.
I.E. they show a lack of understanding of simple concepts thus resulting in a very bad implementation, and the TVC air dashes are a pretty obvious example of that.
add to that the idiotic use of the burst system
mIRC
448
I don’t even understand what you’re trying to say because
- I would never suggest someone makes an animu fighter
- Universal air dash and burst are bad inclusions to design by default
but lol at pretending TvC is some how worse than a myriad of animu fighters. They’re equally bad. Good on you for thinking shit with sprinkles on it is worth praising though.
because this analogy toooootally works for meter rewards in fighting games and is tooootally not retarded.
I pretty much skipped all the previous posts in this thread other than the opening one but here’s my two cents:
IMO the real problem seems to be that everyone is trying to bring out the daigo comeback effect and causing serious consequences.
see: daigo full parry, daigo vs. afrolegends, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgN0NRHGYh4
the problem is that when you try to bring that comeback effect to your average player or casual player, the game gets scrubby at the competitive level. the games that you see in the above references are at least -good- at competitive level and clearly show the comeback factor being present. but each one required playing smart and playing with finesse/skill which is part of the reason why they were so impressive and exciting.
when you turn this into qcfqcf PPP this might be great for the average joe to have fun with but its pretty clear that you should not be able to win/lose a TOURNAMENT MATCH by punishing almost any jump or projectile from anywhere on the screen with almost a whole second of reaction time allowed for your QCFQCF KKK input (referring to fuerte specifically atm), AFTER getting your ass beat into the ground for 20 game seconds because you were too stupid to block on wakeup or in blockstrings but have learned the basics of your ultra. DP FADC Ultra also to blame here of course.
coming back from a really bad situation should be not “impossible”, but should also definitely not be “likely” or “easy”.
evidence of bad tries at this BS:
-first try at SFIV ultras
-first tries at tekken’s rage mechanic
-x-factor
-not sure but I believe KoF12’s critical (cinematic) counter also did this
honestly, if you want to achieve the desired comeback effect without making your game scrubby, the solution is both simple in concept but difficult to actually execute (making games is hard, guys):
encourage/reward offense and/or offensive momentum, but don’t make it easy to do well. (preferably easier to rushdown than defend, or matches between equal-level players essentially go to the turtle)
as an aside, i feel that the “everything is broken” approach of MvC3 is an attempt to emulate certain elements of accent core, but again resulted in being too easy to make use of said broken tech, and now suddenly your perfectly human and expected mistakes are being punished by level-0 tech.
mIRC
451
The assertion that offense only equals rushdown is completely retarded and needs to be American History X’d.
Esura
452
Why don’t mIRC like anime fighters again?
mIRC
453
Because they’re universally bad. They’re made specifically to be catered to animecon participants rather than people who enjoy actually enjoy fighting games.
mowr
454
I think dizzy should be removed because you’re getting rewarded too much for playing good.
On the same note I think all forms of cancelling, linking, juggling and otherwise any kind of combo should be removed. I mean yeah sure you were good enough to land the first hit but why should you be able to extend that punishment as well as punishing my initial mistake? That’s bullshit, I have already payed for my mistake when I took the jump in rh. Why am I ALSO eating st.fp xx hp shoryuken?
Also, any attempted normal attacks should only be punishable by normals of equal or lower strength. It’s bullshit that I got counter-hit out of my cr.lp with a sweep. All I attempted to do was a small, weak attack. It’s not fair that my opponent punished me with a more highly damaging attack than the one I attempted. Oh, and I got knocked down, TOO. Bullshit.
Fuck this game. I’m gonna go play Rock Paper Scissors Fighter 2K11 Ultimate Match.
wha
what is an anime fighter?
Esura
456
Have you ever even played one before? Anime fighters are pretty deep and challenging, as well as aesthetically pleasing to look at.
You should play Arcana Heart 3. It’ll make you a believer.
Esura
458
Anime fighters are fighters in the vein of GG, BB, AH, etc…at least thats what I heard. Its often used as a derogatory term for the games, but it makes no sense why it is (anime-styled artwork is cool), so I’m taking the name back.
Blazblue is a pretty game, if anything.
The point of supers (aside from being an extra feature) is that the dynamics of the match change when people have access to an additional (strong) move. So it makes the match flow less static by transitioning between different meter situations. By extension it has a lot of interesting pacing and decision making implications and ideally makes a game more complex and mentally stimulating. Some people aren’t necessarily going to like those effects when you get things like ST matchups where you’ll walk yourself all the way back to the corner so you can build meter for a safer and more rewarding way in. But in other scenarios it gives offensive characters a pay-off for just…being offensive.
If you fuck it up you get two guys punching the air across the screen until they can walk up and try to hit a combo but there’s plenty good about them if they’re designed to complement the system rather than as the focus of it.
