Ok, I need some serious help against Sagat. I know this matchup is in our favor and I honestly can’t understand why. Besides in the corner this matchup is just impossible for me. I’ve lost count of how many times I lost to horrible players just picking Sagat and just do random shit.
Give him to much space eat a billion fireballs.
Jump? Eat a uppercut
Ex Chicken wing? Eat a uppercut
Finally get in rekka range? Bam random tigerknee that’s safe in block. And back to step one.
The fact that he gets tons of damage everytime he lands an uppercut (especially with Ultra) doesnt help either.
But the thing that pisses me off the most is his tiger knee. What can you do against it (besides reaction flame kick).
How do you guys approach this matchup and what is Sagat’s weakness in general? Because whatever character I pick I just know I lost the match before it even begins (same goes for bison).
As previously stated you have to play smart and know when it’s coming. (EX) If you’re FA’ing fireballs to move forward then once you’re in range expect to get TK’d. So once you get a better feel of the matchup and know when and where to expect a TK you can start using cr.mk to make it whiff which gives you enough time to throw. First person I saw doing this was Starnab in vanilla and was amazed. It works well, and the principle is the same for making guy whiff his elbow. But like I said you have to know it’s coming and prepare for it.
As far as the matchup itself goes, play smart, safe, and take your time and inch him back into the corner. Once you get a knock down be sure you know how to safejump to try to force something. I don’t think the matchup is as badly slated in fei’s favor as it was in AE due to 2012 fei losing the cl.mp>CW loop.
Patience, Patience , Patience. You need to really just pick your spots. I’ve got a video playing against our best Sagat (Heavy Weapons) , I’ll stick it here, I play him a lot and this is from last week. I make a terrible decision to wake up EX flame kick that I get away with , totally wrong, but I was playing the player there, I felt he would pressure with cr.lk. My Ex CW habit is visible here also. I don’t recommend this unless you react. A few time’s here I throw it out in hope instead of reaction. Basically just stay grounded, do not jump and if you do make sure it’s further than close.
Rekka is Godlike in this match, it stuffs the start up of tiger shots and all Sagats normals are whiff punishable. Like ATI say’s TK is punishable, more than likely your getting caught throwing a bad poke/rekka or your getting your focus smashed. Anyway’s…see if you can skim anything from this (apart from the shitty EX wake up flame kick).
If he’s throwing random shit, let him throw random shit. Just look for that opening and nail him . Floating around a lp rekka range will generally make Sagat’s shit themselves (hence why they throw pokes), I know because Sagat’s my other main and I hate Fei Long!!
Wow that is so godlike. This especially could help me out alot. About 3 out of 4 times I can predict when a tiger knee is coming, but I simply had no clue what to do.
Isn’t there a way for Sagat to space the mk Tiger knee to make it safe? I really don’t know what to do after I block that. Currently I just focus backdash it hoping they uppercut so I can get a full punish. Would you guys recommend tick throws/ frametraps after a block knee?
Judging from your video I’m WAAAAY to picky on my spots. After watching both yours and Mago’s video’s I can conclude I give Sagat way to much room to breathe.
Although I tend to lose my patience really fast when stuff does not go my way and not knowing the matchup very well causes me to get really frustrated.
But since you play Sagat, what would you say is Sagat’s weakness. Once I start putting all these tips to practice the match will be fine with Fei. But I love playing a big part of the cast and I suck with all of them against Sagat.
I wish I played in the vanilla days so I would be an expert against Sagat like the rest of the world lol
Sagats weaknesses are the reason he struggles in general. Of all the supposed top characters Sagat easily has the most bad matches IMO.
Big hurt box - doesn’t really apply to Fei other than making it easier to hit your cross ups. (and the death combo which is gone - cry)
Second slowest character in the entire game - Vs one of the fastest forward moving specials in the game? - think about that!
Needs meter to have a real threat of comebacks - Got a nice life lead? Just hang around and block, he’ll hang himself.
Damage output - Misconception about sagat is that he deals damage when in fact his damage is nothing to write home about. Its good but not great.
Terrible close game - Reason your eating TK and TU because Sagat can’t cope up close, they are panic moves designed to just throw you away - Bait!
Dead in the corner without meter or a reckless uppercut.
Dead spot outside close range (hate this as a Gat player) - Can’t throw shots, TK too risky , slow normals, has to block or back away or use st-mk, crmk xx FB to push you back.
Strengths -
Best Zoner in the game
Large range of AA - If he throws a slow shot (look for this) expect to eat a Kara Tiger Uppercut, it’s the only reason he threw it - neutral jump, not forward jump.
Massive comeback on 2 bars - Play smart, over pressuring Sagat with 2 bars is like sticking your balls in a lions cage - Don’t do it! Controlled pressure.
Good Health - takes a while to wear him down
Don’t worry about getting hit by TK. You know how much damage you eat? 40 damage!!! Second hit of TK strength dependant you’ll eat no more than 50 damage. That’s like 2 jabs??!! Just get back up and start walking forward, you can take that crap!!! (man Sagat needs a TK buff so bad - thats another convo)
If I was to give you one piece of advice with the entire cast against Sagat - Just walk forward and block. Worst that can happen? Minor shot or knee damage.
Vs Jumping? Trade TU- Fwd HK into Ultra - Raw Ultra - Tiger uppercut - St HK - F-HK (into Ultra) - Kara Knee - Kara TU = All the bad stuff.
I missed this. Do not try to punish MK/LK TK on block if he hits you with the second hit (only) on the way down. If you block a properly spaced TK - he’s not in throw range. The only time Sagat will attempt a throw from a TK is from an EX TK but be carefull. He can also TU your Tech attempt, or Kara TU your back dash attempt.
Think of it like when ken hits you with an EX hurricain and you have a choice to make. More often than not, he will attempt the throw - I do.
MK/LK TK is a block string special designed to give Sagat some space back, or make you press a button.
If properly spaced so that he hits with the later active frames (considering the last hit is active for 6f), it becomes + on block. The frame data assumes it hits point blank, on the first active frame.
EDIT: Re-reading this though it does sound like he’s referring to the straight up data.
Yeah im just stalking about straight up data. I know at max range its at “+” advantage. Like if you throw a meaty cr.mp with Fei on there wake up instead of +2 its more like +3-4, creat counter hit potential. I use it a lot now as its our only cr normal with plus frames. Also you can OS a fk/cw from a cr.mp far easier then the rekka OS.
Here Juicebox breaks down what it takes to go from trash to great. [media=youtube]mpJT-rGnnUs[/media] He may come off as harsh and such but he makes many many valid points
i agree with everything he says but i had to cringe when he said you can’t get better by only playing online. i know he right but i don’t get many chances to play offline. still tho i learn way more playing offline then online. the first time i played offline is when i switch my style to being more solid. also what up fei forums, i decide to pick up fei. i am having some good progress with him but generally i am terrible.
he makes some good points, but it’s rather silly if you ask me…There’s plenty of players out there (myself for example) who simply want to be good/great for the sake of it. Not to win any tourney, not to be Mago/Diago/Wong/etc…but to simply be considered solid and have fun with the game.
And despite his rhetoric, SF4 is a game, and it did sell a lot more units than the more technical SF3. Yeah, sure, the system holds the hands of scrubs, but it caters to every type of skill level out there. Everyone doesn’t want to be diago, or have the time to learn the ins and outs of fighting games. Though many will deny it, I think the majority of people are simply satisfied going from scrubby to “OK”. From “OK” to “GREAT” takes a large amount of dedication that many people don’t have time for. I’ve have plenty of people tell me my Ken is solid, ur a good player, awesome mix-up etc…That’s why I wanted to get better, for acknowledgment from fellow players. In that way, I’ve already reached my goals, and won…Fun is what SF is all about. Not striving to learn every match up, every scenario, and every match-up strategy inside and out, and for him to basically talk like that should be everyone’s goals is asinine. Far more important things in life than being competitive all the time. There will always be the few that excel…the majority though, man…just leave them alone and let em mash baby…
