Taiki
29
props to NKI for that, BUT, was the arcade version done on a supergun or an emulator?
edit: I’m very certain it’d be on a supergun, but just gotta ask.
It was done on a supergun.
Taiki
31
Okay, so it does prove with out a doubt there is a measure of lag of input inherent with CPS2 games?
leaveal
32
yeah Master Bigode. it’s probably just that the animation doesn’t change until the 4th frame of the move.
edit:
ok, just read the thread you linked to. @_@ i dunno.
i need some help. i downloaded nfba.7z and the jan. 26 kailleraclient.dll but for some reason when i try to connect to someone through p2p it doesnt work. it just says connecting but it never does. i can connect through p2p using mame, so does anyone have any ideas on what i should do?
It’s better than 4 frames of delay so quit crying…
SaBrE
35
the simple fact that nki test was done on a sugergun does not prove that arcade ST takes 4 frames to animate. the supergun is plugged into a tv. arcade boards do not support ntsc signals and run at different resoultion, etc, to make it simple. you have to have a video converter to convert that rgb signal to ntsc, and it causes “processing” time. some converters lag really bad, some dont. for all we know, the converter that nki uses has a 3 frame delay. the only thing that that test proved was that ccc2 ST had input lag compared to arcade. but to say arcade ST animation frames dont start til frame 4, doesnt hold up, unless its done in its native form, on an actual arcade monitor.
leaveal
36
is it possible for composite decoders inside TVs to have lag?
SaBrE
37
no. theres no upscaling or anything needed, before hd technology rolled around
Arxinal
38
Complete noobie question I dl’d r15 what do I need to do to get 3rd strike running I’m completely lost here a step by step would be great. I searched the forums and couldnt find any tutorials. I use the final burn in my ggpo folder to play my current games.
Taiki
39
wrong.
You still have to decode those signals BACK into red/green/blue/vert sync/horizontal sync, and TVs can do it incredibly fast. like, under 1ms fast.
Same goes with ENCODING that signal. In fact, most super guns use the same RGB encoder as the original PSX does, the Sony CXA1645M chip(or the Analog Devices AD724/725). So I’m fairly certain that we’re not going to see lag come from a converter or a TV set.
leaveal
40
yeah i checked the inside of my tv before posting that question, and it definitely converts composite into RGB and then amplifies that before feeding it to the CRT itself. good to hear it doesn’t lag.
SaBrE
41
taiki: seriously, there are scalers that are used on superguns that cause lag. im trying to remember one of the models. it wasnt an xrgb but i think it was still one from microcom. i think b-izm has it still. cant even CC in a3 with it =/
Finally! I didn’t have a good way to explain all of this.
Taiki
43
A scaler will lag. Doing pure 15kHz RGB/Sync->Composite/Svideo won’t.
edit: I will say this though, i’ve encountered some weird superguns. I think it was the Arcade in a Box JAMMA in a box supergun that as on display at Classic gaming expo that had this really weird lagging thing. Might have just been me.
Sorry for the old bump… was wondering if most emulators fixed the input delay/lags?
Is Nebula still the emulator to use for 0 input lag?
How about kawaks, fba, mame?
xqoole
45
Can’t speak for any street fighter games, but all the tests I’ve done for KOF games in different emulators have seemed to turn up at least a frame of lag. Example: In the service menu of King of Fighters 2002 (F2 for FBA) you can get to a screen to test out if your buttons are working correctly. When I pause the game, and press and hold a button, it takes 3 frame advances (F1 in FBA after pausing the game) to register on the screen. It would seem to me that if everything was working correctly, it would only take two frame advancements, one frame advancement for the game to recognize the input, and the next frame to display it.
This probably isn’t the best test, but I don’t have 60 FPS camera to test things out more thoroughly. I wish I did. One other thing, turning off the sound does nothing for input lag on KOF games, it just causes the frame advancement feature of the emulator to skip 2 frames instead of one for some unknown reason.
Thanks… anybody else with more recent testings?
xqoole
47
A little followup on my previous post that I meant to write earlier:
It seems that the emulator is actually not lagging a frame. Example: I pause the game (kof 2002 with a debug dipswitch enabled, note that this is the not the emulator debugging mode), and input a+b (roll), then advance one frame, the debug numbers on the screen change, I advance one more frame, the roll initiates. It looks like like the game is recognizing the input immediately after advancing one frame, which seems like how it should be working.
Apparently the service menu has a an in-game 1 frame lag on it. Note that kawaks does seem to have a 1 frame delay with this testing method, however accurate it actually is.
One interesting note about kof 2002, and I sure a lot of fighting games are have something similar this, but a 2 frame ground attack, like kim’s close c doesn’t actually come out in two frames after you input it. It takes 4 frames advances, then it goes into 2 more, then hits. That 4 frame lag seems to be consistent on all ground and air attacks, and acts just like a real four frame lag would for timing purposes, i.e. you can hit kim’s close C a little early when recovering from an attack, so it comes out in 2 frames (then hits) immediately after recovering from the attack/block/whatever else. The difference is that 4 frame delay doesn’t apply to everything, a roll is instant, the game recognizes the input, and it comes out. There plenty of other differences as well, in terms of moving and jumping etc. I think specials come out the first frame as I recall as well.
