you realize the genius of SF is that it put the player in their characters shoes. sure ryu can do a fucking sick magical uppercut, but it’s ‘special’. he can’t just do it all the time. he might fail. it’s a challenging technique.
this is part of the fun of the genre. that you as the player have to do the same things as your character (ostensibly some kind of martial artist). do you think someone who practices a martial art is equally able to perform every single technique with complete consistency? that’s part of the challenge the game presents. becoming able to. it’s a struggle which is what makes it fun as you progress. do you know what makes someone a master in a martial art? knowledge and technique. understanding and the ability to apply it. the idea is you need BOTH.
without that you get this game which is pathetic, misguided, garbage. an attempt at making a fighting game for people who don’t play fighting games.
i wonder how any of us started playing fighting games before mr. sirlin.
you know, part of the thing that makes FGs unique IS the execution. Its one thing the genre has that kind of sets it apart. I find the people who say it shouldn’t exist to be as misguided as those that want everything super hard to do.
That’s bullshit; shooters have way harder execution requirements. MOBAs have fucking execution requirements. StarCraft has absolutely wicked execution requirements. The only esports I can think of that doesn’t have them are card games
Ignores all the motion commands in the game to make some extra point.
Beep bap boooop one button supers are the truth. Skip dap doodle dee, your fighting game need be just like this.
Whether you want to accept it or not, all of the motion commands are part of the experience of playing a fighting game. Execution for a lot of things are part of the FG experience. you get so hung up on one button specials to prove a point that you don’t address all of the thing simplifying leaves out.
That’s okay though. People worshiping at the Church of The Snake Shirt eventually turn into zealots.
Uh, no, shooters and MOBAs are much more simple to handle than fighting games. There’s a reason why they are way more popular as genres (and it’s not just because they’re not 1v1).
RTS on the other hand simply require you to be insane.
Fighters have a higher skill floor to feel like you know what you’re doing, but you’re absolutely a scrub if you don’t think that the execution barrier to being good at shooters isn’t leagues higher than it is for fighters.
MOBA games absolutely have execution requirements; I’d say they’re easier than fighters for sure with the exception maybe of some micro heroes which start to get up there, but my argument was that the execution requirements are there, but that they’re higher.
Motion commands are not some commandment from on high that if you don’t have them, you’re not a fighter. You saying that isn’t the most retarded thing in the thread thanks to Sir Random up there, but it’s a respectable second. I enjoy the motions and think they add something to the game, but they’re not indispensable, and I like that people are experimenting with traditional fighters without them. There’s room for more types of fighters; FS existing doesn’t mean your favorite FG is suddenly booted off the island
The important thing for me is that there’s loads of room for different levels of technical execution in many kinds of videogame genres, fighting games included. Just depends on your personal preference of what kind of game (and even characters within a game) that you enjoy.
But in fighting games, there is very little at the lower-technical execution end of the spectrum, which is why it’s so cool Fantasy Strike is happening. I really enjoy it, and I can enjoy some games with much more complex execution too.
That is true. Most modern fighting games are a godawful amount of work, Tekken and anime especially. I’ve been playing ST a ton because of just how little work that game needs while still having a lot of room for expression and characters doing strong things. Most modern takes are either work or feel very limited. ST doesn’t feel limited for some reason, probably the high damage off stray hits and 2-hitters.
Wow, this thread turned really stupid for a while.
For what it’s worth, QCF and DP motions are what they are because they were originally designed, in SF1, to mimic the actual movement of Ryu’s body when throwing a hadouken or doing a shoryuken. That’s 100% it. “Can’t do a DP while crouching” is entirely an emergent gameplay characteristic of a motion based on the way Ryu steps forward to start a deep uppercut from down low. Let’s stop having this argument.
As for the actual game the thread is about… it’s a fun game! The reason people compare it to ST at all is because, on a bunch of fundamental yet superficial levels, it feels like SF2 (stuff like no dashing and throws that actually do damage instead of being teched 200% of the time like in modern SF).
It’s going live on Steam Early Access sometime this month, with private matches, and I’m looking forward to that because queueing in the current Patreon build is tough, because I’m in Kyoto far away from nearly everyone else on Patreon and the ping-based matchmaking means that I’m perpetually very low priority. It’ll be nice to be able to see if someone wants to play, and then actually choose to play against them instead of just both queueing and hoping we eventually get matched up by The Algorithm.
Nice! New build is up! Some cool gameplay changes (I cackled with evil glee when I saw that Grave’s counterhit air super now keeps moving instead of stopping in place) and better graphics (though Valerie now falls victim to the same bug that Setsuki does in the Mac version, where a bug in the Mac version of Unity randomly causes BODY HORROR in characters with facial animation) and a new background. Looks like the dedicated throw button is the official policy, at least for the moment, which… I can understand, even if I don’t personally like it.
They also replaced Grave’s ground super animation, so that at this point, there are officially no animations that haters can point at and be like “they just copied ____.” I’m sure that’s just a coincidence, though. ; )
(I’m still holding out hopes that, in the interest of not just providing haters with free ammo, they’ll go with staff-based-attacks Argagarg instead of stretchy-arms-based Argagarg, because — let’s face it — stretchy arms are way less interesting anyway from a design perspective. I do hope they take a cue from SF5 Dhalsim’s animations, though, and just make him a squishy boneless boy who moves more like an octopus than a human.)
DeGray 6A, pilebunker, and Dead on Time got changed as well? And Rook’s spd? And Geiger’s animations?
Also, both Merkava and Raven take offense to thinking that stretchy arms being less interesting. I didn’t think he’d be the Sim analog though, as there was the robot for that. I have no clue how he’ll play though, as your “fireballs on any part of the screen”, Guile, and fireball trap characters are already taken.
Countdown timer on fantasystrike.com suggests that Steam Early Access is coming at the end of this week (with, Patreon patrons have been told, private matches with friends now available)
Holy fuck Val’s new model is ugly. If this is the price to pay to have facial animation I’d rather keep her emotionless.
I’m also not sure I like the new shaders. I feel the heavier cell shading gave the game more personality.
if this game’s philosophy is super easy inputs and some strategy that’s fine. not all fighting games should be the same and new things can be discovered this way. but saying that ALL fighters should have super easy commands is just stupid as that is a part that is rewarding and actually balances specials as well as being more immersive. it is like a real martial art where you have to practice a lot to acquire a skill and you just get better and better. why take that out because Herr Sirlin says it’s bad? execution can be and is a part of the strategy as well. and it’s a hell of lot more impressive to watch people pull off combos they had to practice a lot in an intense atmosphere like a major tournament.
you don’t lose strategy because of harder execution, you actually gain some more strategical avenues to explore because of it. why only have one or the other when you can have both?
Who is saying that? And the argument is never that you lose strategy, as that’s a retarded argument; having six buttons instead of 100 each of which does something slightly different technically gives you less strategy under that definition.
Being able to always execute your strategies lends a certain type of robustness to the game and shifts the balance towards making decisions instead of being able to execute them. It’s a spectrum from Chess to DDR and it’s kind of dumb to think that moving one or two steps in either direction makes a game illegitimate.
The only caveat I would say is that in the case of reversals themselves which is the primary thing that I have a disdain for at lower execution, is that the reversals themselves should have a drawback bigger than just being punishable on block if they are super easy to do.
Fantasy strike see,s to handle this well by placing more limitations on reversals than is seen in most other fighters. Things like losing health just for attempting a reversal are good balances in my mind.
In skullgirls I don’t know if this is super intentional, but while many characters have invincible moves, most that don’t require meter have big downsides like filias DP having very little horizontal range.
Most other invincible attacks outside of that have the balancing factor that they are supers and require meter to do them, sure they can be made safe, but that requires 2 meters and the correct team setup, plus using 2 meters on a move that does really good damage when combod into, on block, is actually something that can severely weaken your game as your opponent will now be winning the meter game and can much more easily kill you than you can kill them.
I like these kinds of decisions being made to balance the ease of use of said moves.
But in games where execution is a real factor getting out invincible moves or even just really strong moves, those also have a level of depth that is welcomed by players that make strategies that depend on putting their opponents into “hard to execute properly” situations, which is a very valid strategy, such as when using a meaty against a waking opponent while knowing that you are forcing the waking opponent to do a reversal that can be as hard to time as a 1 frame link depending on the games reversal window.
