Jumping fwd/back fierce early seems to work good for me. It has a good hitbox range. Only thing is you have to do it pretty early.
I agree with this and also the jumping forward/back medium punch is good bcos the hit box is active for longer…useful against vega too.
Great Post Superbowl, I struggle in the chun match up as well. But I have seen Chun jump in trade with low Fierce before so I know its possible but I think standing strong is better, either that or jump attack. I managed to find one of brian’s videos of him fighting a chun if anybody is interested? Great Vid
[media=youtube]O-axhvhmanI[/media]
Take Care.
Here’s a freak who’s been giving me all types of trouble as of late: Dhal-Fuckin-Sim!!
Usually I always have a tough match with a good Sim, but I usually pull it out. Now, I’m beginning to find myselg struggling against him much more.The main thing is his trapping. When they create good space, they’ll fire Yoga fire away at me, then when I jump in, they use that damn stretch kick, then when I release a Sonic, they corkscrew me, then it gets even rougher because when they’re usually near me, i get caught in a Yoga bop (Grab) then pressured in the corner, mainly with Yoga flames, though a flash kick can knock him down if fast enough.
Anyhoo, what’s the best approach to fighting a smart Sim, who looks to trap, and constantly beats out your grab attempts? I’m almost too scared to even engage in close combat because my grabs hardly never do anything. His style just messes my focus up a ton.
Oh, one more thing: Is Chun’s headstomp always beating out Guile’s flash kick? This has happened to me more than I liked. It seems like a constantly jumping Chun nullifies your Sonic Boom ability, and forces you to concentrate on using flash kick a lot more than I want.
man, all u need to do is use your flash kick like this:
[media=youtube]z3AUHkq76Fk[/media]
man, all u need to do is use your flash kick like this:
[media=youtube]z3AUHkq76Fk[/media]
Lol, I had watched that video last night, and it was the funniest shit ever.
I might have to try an all Flash-Kick session one of these days.
I feel bad for the Honda, at least he didn’t rage-quit.
on a serious note, if you block chun-li’s stomp you hit her as she bounces away with a jumping fierce kick, or is she’s close enough go for a back breaker or air throw
If Sim keeps throwing out Yoga fires you can jump in from full screen away with Roundhouse kick. You need to jump in on anticipation so he can’t anti-air you. Smart Sims mix up Yoga Fires and Yoga Flames, if he does Yoga Flame you will get your ass toast, you need to use them mind games to guess right.
If he tries to Yoga Fire/Flame from half screen away you can Roundhouse Flashkick on reaction.
When you do get in, Sim will try to push you back out with some block string. Pick up his pattern, and Flashkick his limbs the next time around.
The best way I found to deal with drills is (if you don’t have charge, otherwise Flashkick) the sobat kick, or standing jab spam. BTW, drills are very hard to counter online, usually by the time I see it, I’m already in blockstun). Otherwise I don’t have any good ideas on dealing with drills. I need to work on this too.
After you score a knockdown, rush him down.
Jumping straight up with Fierce is good to do every so often when you’re near to bait a slide, or hit him out of whatever else he might do.
im not a great guile player like the rest of ya on the forum but back in the days if u jump in at sim and time ur feirce right u at least trade hits wit sims anit air but not when ur across far from the screen i sure wish that hdr would have focus on the other great players rather than ryu honda gief u no wat i mean but i use to main guile back in the day but on hdr they didnt really give him and improvement in my opinion plus i super move still sucks if u dont no how to chain it. probably the hardest guy to chain his super
Hado, you’re great with everyone; including Guile.
Thanks, Tecmo. I’ll try these tactics. Sim just seems to constantly mess up my timing. I usually look to do a fk, but never get the chance. I never realized the match-up could be this tough. Thanks again, Tecmo.
Also, thanks irrepressible. I often neglected to block in that situation.
So here’s another pure theory post about “precharge”!
As you’re probably convinced by now, in a straight-up fireball war, doing :db::r::db::p: instead of :db::r::p::db: doesn’t really help. If you’re still not convinced, behold the marvel that is my theory fighter spreadsheet under “Regular fireball war”. It uses an arbitrary charge time of 9f for illustrative purposes and assumes the guy can complete the :db::r::db: motion in 4f, which is pretty damn fast. By the way, that thing assumes that the “precharger” has perfect timing on pressing :p: on the exact frame he does :db: - if he does :p: any later, “precharge” guy is actually at a disadvantage because he’s delaying his boom needlessly.
Edit: And I also assume that the charge really does start on the frame where you hit :p: itself, rather than on the frame after that. If I’m wrong on that, then the “precharge” guy is even more disadvantaged, heh. So in a regular fireball war, “precharge” :db::r::db::p: is always worse than regular method (at least delayed first boom, maybe it also loses more advantage over time) and it’s more complex to input, so nobody should bother doing it.
But I just thought of a theoretical scenario where using the :db::r::db: method could actually help, rather than be useless / detrimental. Let’s say Guile scores a close knockdown against his opponent, and wants to start up a stream of booms as fast as he can. Because of the KD, he has a lot of time to charge that first boom, and all he wants is for that first boom to be somewhere over his opponent when he gets up. So instead of fixing the charge start like in a regular fireball war, that situation has Guile fixing the initial boom throw time, and he has all the time he wants to do motions before hitting :p: for the first time, like the “precharge” motion :db::r::db::p:.
That allows him to start charging for the second boom a bit earlier. Then for all the followup booms, Guile can just use the regular method and just rely on his second boom’s sped-up time as his advantage. He “precharged” only once and managed to hide the precharge motion’s disadvantage (slower startup) while still keeping its benefit (faster charge start for the next boom). It’s a similar theory to Vega’s “precharged” kick flip -> “normal” kick flip juggle.
This would only be useful for a close knockdown - if the first boom takes longer to travel to the opponent than the charge time for the next boom, then it’s a moot point because charge time isn’t the limiting factor anymore. And if your first boom doesn’t actually hit the opponent as he gets up, then it’s also moot because you probably are delaying your first boom needlessly with the precharge motion.
So to recap:
Get a close KD, do [:db:]:r:[:db:]:p:, :r::p:[:db:], :r::p:[:db:], :r::p:[:db:]…
I haven’t tried that at all, but the theory sounds solid. What do you think?
As you say Thelo, precharge puts additional “startup” time onto a boom, while making it possible to get your next boom out earlier. If all you do is throw continuous booms with precharge method, the net effect is nothing. But if you want to flashkick instead of throwing that next boom, then precharge lets you get it out earlier. Also, doesnt precharge help in a fireball war for the same reason? You can be throwing a bunch of precharge booms, but then maybe that next fireball from Ryu is coming at you too fast… so you do a regular boom motion for this one instead. So precharge allows you to get out one boom or flashkick faster than you would have normally. You cant keep this up continuously, but it gives you an emergency faster boom or faster flashkick.
I’ve also been trying to figure out why precharging is better than normal charging. On paper, using frames and charts, it seems there is no difference between the two, and even seems that normal charging has an advantage. Even Maj has written in his charge article that precharging is no different from normal charging. But there is no doubt in my mind that precharging is the better of the two techniques.
Like brian said, it allows you to charge for a Somersault faster. And the most concrete example I can think of that proves precharging is better: Claw’s Flipkick juggle. For the longest time I couldn’t do this juggle combo at all. My second Flipkick would always be too late and whiff. And if I did it just a tad earlier, I would whiff a standing kick. Then I read somewhere on SRK that precharging makes this combo easier. I tried it, and I got it on almost the first try. So much easier!! Yet even today, I still can’t do that combo without precharging.
And this was the first time I had ever heard of precharging, so I tried it out on other charge attacks, like Sonic Boom, and there was a noticeable difference there too. Yet I can’t explain exactly *how *precharging is better, in terms of frame data and whatnot. The only thing I can say is, try it out yourself, either in a Sonic Boom battle, or doing Claw’s Flipkick juggle combo.
In regards to Boxer, what do you guys have better luck with when stuffing a jump-in, J.:hk: or J.:hp:?
Air to air or ground to air? Air to air, j Fierce is always the best, but j Roundhouse is good for long range air to air.
Ground to air, cr Fierce is always my favorite, but depending on the spacing, just about any ground normal is a good anti air.
This a good match that shows almost all of Guile’s options vs Boxer’s jumpins:
[media=youtube]w7qnNCbfAuQ&#t=4m03s"[/media]
Damn, I didn’t know cr Jab was *that *good. = J LOL
I have tried it and I “felt” I was keeping up with ryu better than normal.
If I corectly understand how it works, that can’t actually be the case, though. The “precharge” motion will only let you start charging for your flash kick or sonic boom earlier compared to the moment you threw your last boom, but the regular method would have you throw that very same boom earlier anyway, so you’re really not gaining anything overall.
It’s the same principle as in my chart above. The regular method guy could throw a boom at frame L and flashkick at frame X, while the precharge guy could throw a boom at frame N and flash kick at frame X too. It only looked like you saved time compared to the boom-throw time, but overall you’re not actually saving anything.
Well, I guess if the opponent is purely reacting to the boom throw itself, then it does make it a bit more possible to flash kick the reaction (Honda who waits for the boom, then buttslams through it), since then the important reference time really is the boom throw time, and you don’t actually care about the extra startup time.
Actually there could maybe be one other situation where the precharge could actually help. Can you do the precharge motion at the start of a round? By which I mean, do [:db:]:r::db:, round starts, hit :p: on first frame to get a boom. If so, then you get its benefit without its drawback, since the longer startup was hidden during the “Round 1 fight!” intro.
Edit: Blitzfu yeah, the Vega flipkick juggle is a good example of the precharge motion working well, that’s why I mentioned it in my earlier post. The reason it works is that your goal with the double flipkick isn’t to pressure the other guy with constant flipkicks like in a fireball war, so you might not care about the extra startup time, if you have enough reaction time. In that specific case, there is nothing to be gained by doing the first flipkick earlier, but there is definitely something to be gained by making the second flipkick follow more closely the second.
So you’re paying extra startup time at the start (which you don’t care about) to gain a faster second flipkick (which you do care about) by doing precharge for the first, regular for the second. Score!
In a straight fireball war though, you normally do care about the initial startup time, because each frame you’re spending on a precharge motion without a fireball out is a frame where your opponent’s fireball is closing in on you. In some specific situations where you don’t actually care about startup time (post KD, against a guy who only waits for the boom, Vega flipkick juggle, maybe others?), then sure, you can open with a precharge motion at no real cost.
Edit 2: Just thought of another way to hide the startup cost of precharge: doing the motion while Guile is busy hitting the opponent with another move (jump kick, low forward, flash kick…) Do :db::r::db: while Guile is busy doing that previous move, then hit :p: as soon as you can throw a boom, and voil, no startup cost.
[quote=Thelo;8573023
Well, I guess if the opponent is purely reacting to the boom throw itself, then it does make it a bit more possible to flash kick the reaction (Honda who waits for the boom, then buttslams through it), since then the important reference time really is the boom throw time, and you don’t actually care about the extra startup time.
[/quote]
Yeah, this is what Im talking about. I think the most important example is for T-Hawk’s dive. It also works for Chun and Dictator if they jump forward after a boom has been on the screen a little bit.
Edit: Oh and another hugely important place that precharge helps in fireball wars: After you block a fireball. You can’t actually keep up with say Ryu or Sagat’s fireballs forever. Eventually you’ll block one (and there’s nothing wrong with that). The precharge “startup” cost can then be hidden in blockstun.