if your opponent has no real health left, the poison will start eating at the remaining white life. another reason why late game VT is useful
Honestly, I think his stun output on normals is so disproportionately high because poison itself doesn’t build or affect stun. If they scaled it normally, he would almost never stun people.
Also, I think everyone in this thread would consider buffing the blockstun on st.HK by 1-2 frames fair. The normal was meant for frame traps, but many FANGs have to use cr.MK against characters with 3-frame jabs.
When do you guys work in V-Skill? I find myself doing a lot of normals and not actually poisoning my opponents like I should.
I tend to toss it out when I score a knock down but want to spark a predictable reaction when they are far from me and I don’t want to take risk. I slowly follow it, safely of course and watch their reaction. its really interesting.
I was fighting a mika player who was jumping my poison balls in the corner, so I tossed a V-Skill and Just as it was getting close I tossed a poison ball and mika jumped into it. Its really interesting because you can get certain people to do a lot of stupid stuff and you just kind of sit there with this smirk on your face like, yeah I got ya.
After looking at some numbers, fangs damage on paper is in line with most characters average damage off of hit confirms and jumpins. That is of course when we take poison into consideration.
The major difference is that outside of super his opportunity for burst damage is zilch compared to everyone else.
He’s never gonna hit like ryu, but his damage is definitely in the same ballpark as chun, sim and to a degree Nash (sans trigger)
went to battle circuit today and went 3-2. choked it up vs this rashid player and got rekt by chris hu. fang is an extremely stressful tournament character. it’s so hard to stay in a position of control.
Most characters deal at least 200 damage from a medium opener (except Dhalsim, but with instant air teleport he has a better access to jump-ins combos than any other characters). All F.A.N.G can do after a medium is cancel into a special for a total of 100-110 damage + 50 poison.
whats the context of the opening? Are we using it to punish? What kind of punish? Are we doing a frame trap?
The only time this holds up is in a very strict punish scenario. The opponent is at -6 and we’re right up on them, because then the other characters by comparison could land to medium attacks into special granting them that 200 damage whereas fang can only cancel c.mp into special. But what about punishing at near tip range? For the most part other characters can’t link multiple medium attacks once distance involved which makes their damage in this instance match fangs.
If it’s a bigger punish we get access to bigger moves. Adding a jump in is another argument all together. Frame traps and counter hit damage definitely helps even him out.
But nah lets keep looking at it in a vacuum.
Wait, what ? You’re the one starting the “on paper” theorycrafting, and I showed you that even in this context F.A.N.G is inferior. Then there’s the actual gameplay, where noone - not even you - can say with a straight face that “F.A.N.G’s damage is in line with most characters”.
I said it was roughly in the same ballpark as the average damage pool. Surely that implies there are exceptions. He ain’t doing roo damage that’s for sure.
I agree with rhyllis, more damage is always welcome but what he does dish out is comparable to other characters in the game of a similar archetype.
It’s possible he’s pulling a similar trick to what Aliktea did with SF4 and his slow-motion / lag-switch. I’ve seen a couple of his matches and I can’t believe he has the #1 rank legitimately.
what similar archetype? is there another gimmick fighter that has to use a resource or ability to affect or be effective in a match? Only person i know of is Hakan, and Capcom had to bend over backwards to graft that playstyle properly into SFIV, a game that doesn’t really work like that. And even here, they’ve proven they’re either too scared or too stupid to let a character like that exist amongst other characters who don’t really need that kind of “outside help” to work. Personally speaking, i think his moveset and the way he plays is FINE. I just think Capcom has connected his poison damage too much to his regular damage, to the point where if you dont get any kind of poison damage, you almost automatically lose control of the fight, same as how Hakan worked in SFIV. If I were Capcom, I would disconnect that and make the poison what its SUPPOSED to be and what I imagine Capcom had in mind in the first place, which was as a ticking modifier to his normals. I think thats how he should be in my oppinion.
Archetype as in he does roughly the same damage as other zoners in the game, which for now is mostly Sim. To quote Rhyllis from the other thread:
There is definitely room for improvement on our ends as well as what could be done to the character.
but hes NOT dhalsim though. his zoning is inherently harder to use because of his controls. and he doesnt have the same kind of mixups either, like 'sim does. His playstyle has more in common with a trap/setup character, with a mix of Hakan considering how dependent on his “gimmick” he is. Im not sure ive really seen that kind of character in a Capcom game before. Maybe in a Darkstalkers or a VS game, but definitely not here. And the fact that we are having to factor in his poison WITH his normals shows the REAL inherent problem in his playstyle and why we need to put that out of our minds. I dont give two shits if they ever buff his poison (i mean they probably should), but his normals and his foostie game, should FEEL suitably strong with the rest of the cast. i think his myriad of options are FINE. But his damage is TOO RELIANT on a mechanic and he feels overtuned because of that mechanic. Basically, Hakan 2.0.
One thing I really like about FANG is how poison interacts with white life. Since it won’t go down while poisoned, FANG has more time to get his bonus damage after making you block a bunch of normals.
There were 3 fangs in top 50 of Final Round compared to 2 Bisons.
His damage is low because he gets more damage opportunities than other characters (through his longer normals), they don’t get white life regen while poison is on, he has easy access to multi-hit, etcetera.
He only needs to be judged on his overall strength, which currently I feel is fine.
Does anyone know how many plus frames fang is at after a lp, mp, fp, and ex lunge combo (assuming opp quick recovers, both normal and back)? Trying to see how much time we have to continue pressure.
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fighter_V/Fang
after ex lounge combo do hk dash > 2 mk beats normal and back recovery 3f mash
in corner lp sotoja or lk reyodenda whiff lp > coward crouch kick beats both recovery options
if they don’t quickrise whiff lp > coward crouch kick
midscreen
if they like to quickrise ex sotoja hk dash > hp is a counter hit setup
or after lp sotoja > mk dash > st pl is a 3frame counter hit setup ( or meaty throw )
Many thank yous!
Hey guys, I noticed something that I haven’t seen explicitly mentioned anywhere: FANG has 2 versions of his command crouch. If you are not holding any downward direction, FANG only crouches briefly but still provides enough time to cancel into his kick follow up. If you are holding a downward direction, he remains on the ground for much longer and the window to cancel into his kick is extended further. I’m not sure if the duration is variable with how long you hold the down input or if he only has 2 versions.
Also handy to note: FANG is in a counterhit state both on the crouch startup and while crouching. This makes it very vulnerable to sweeps and certain unduckable crush counters.