F.A.N.G. General Thread: Nothing up the Sleeve

[Khentimentiu]

Might just be me but FANG really feels like he was built for SF4 and the SFV system hurts him a bit.

[quicks]

He has no reversal , he’d get eaten alive in 4. , plus he’s tall as fuck

He’d be bottom teir

[ES_Curse]

Might just be me but FANG really feels like he was built for SF4 and the SFV system hurts him a bit.

Honestly, his normals and zoning scream SF3 to me. Like, the 2 hits thing would have been a godsend in 3S, and we would also get real charge partitioning. Can you imagine whiffing st.HP for meter? DAMN SON.

But he works well in SFV. The poison, multihits, and charge mechanics interact very uniquely:
-Poison makes the chip from his multi hits scarier, and stresses the opponent so much they don’t notice you’re charging
-Multi hits buy time for poison and charging
-Charging is less of an issue while poison damage is stacking, and his long attack animations mean your damage output is not hindered by charge.

[Haggarmania]

Does anyone else feel that Fang is one of the weaker characters? He’s certainly not bad, but it seems like I have to work so much harder with him to earn wins. I was playing with Bison and Ryu recently, and it felt so much easier.

Maybe I’m just real salty after some poor matches recently, and shit ignoring my ground poison.

[Iduno]

Thanks for the tips, I’ve done a bit of testing on the tech trapping side, turns out teching a knockdown leaves you fully invulnerable throughout the animation and safe when it ends.

Also turns out that every single knockdown we have besides crush counter sweep is techable.

[Rhyllis]

Also turns out that every single knockdown we have besides crush counter sweep is techable.

I believe this is true for every character, with the exceptions of some supers I think?

[Bronn]

Some other things I don’t think have been explored yet, anyone have success with his super as an AA?
It should also be a great reversal, it’s invinc on frame 1 so it’s probably his best wakeup option (because who’s ready to punish his super at this early stage?)

I was thinking maybe you can bait them into a AA super by lunging/misting and they go for the jump in. (in fact you can, and if it corner carries you can get that cr.hp reset)

and of course you can combo into super from fireballs so at least his zoning has decent baiting going on when he has super

[Iduno]

It’s pretty risky outside of combos tbh, sometimes it can hit the opponent but have them drop out and be able to punish you anyway.

Personally I still reckon ex slide is his best reversal, just got to make sure you don’t get too predictable and start getting grabbed out of it, but that’s really no different from getting predictable with dps and getting blocked and punished.

[Rhyllis]

Some other things I don’t think have been explored yet, anyone have success with his super as an AA?
It should also be a great reversal, it’s invinc on frame 1 so it’s probably his best wakeup option (because who’s ready to punish his super at this early stage?)

I was thinking maybe you can bait them into a AA super by lunging/misting and they go for the jump in. (in fact you can, and if it corner carries you can get that cr.hp reset)

and of course you can combo into super from fireballs so at least his zoning has decent baiting going on when he has super

Rather than AAing with super, I find it easier/more reliable cancelling the first hit of c.HP into super instead. Plus it looks cooler.

I do like the super as a reversal options for the reasons you mentioned. Rarely it’s punished, even on block it sometimes gets a cross up hit, and people don’t really feel they need to worry on F.A.N.G’s wake up at all. I’m worried it’ll become a bad habit with how much success I’m having with it, lol.

[jeffsgames]

Here are my thoughts on the character so far:

Fang has an interesting distance from the opponent where both j.MK will connect normally and j.HK will connect as a cross-up and both hits can be combo’ed from (much harder with the j.MK). Even though it is a timing mixup (you will press MK earlier and HK later) it is still very hard for many people to block. You can check this yourself by starting training in the middle of the map and doing three whiffed cr.MPs and one cr.MK. I tested against Ken, because of height the distance may be different for other characters. From this distance both the normal jump attack and the cross-up will connect. This also works in the corner - if you start on a side in training mode just figure out the number of whiffed attacks to get to the distance so you can test it.

In normal play if you end a combo with MP Sotoja (the charge at you claw attack) then you may be at this special distance if they quick-rise in place. The LP version will put you a little further away and the HP will put you a little closer. Unfortunately there is really no incentive at any point in SF5 to wake up any other way than back quickrise so if they are doing this either walk forward a bit to get to the distance or better yet just start up your zoning game with a V-Skill or MP Nishikyu (up poison ball). Jumping at this distance is obviously not a safe jump and you might even get auto-corrected DP for it, but in my experience most players will not risk an attack when you are jumping in for a cross-up.

In the corner you can end a combo with EX Ryobenda (ground poison gas) and get a LOT of time to do something. The something I’ve had the most luck with is to quickly move forward a bit with either st. HP or cr. MP and immediately place a HK Ryobenda right in front of their face as they recover. Then you can use HK command dash which will actually push them into the gas allowing you to combo them (I use st. HK, cr. MP, LP Sotoja). This is brutally hard to block since they have to switch from guarding one direction to another on the frame that Fang crosses them over. I’ve done this trick dozens of times and have yet to see anyone block it.

Another setup has worked for me about 90% of the time is Crush Counter Sweep (close) into MK Ryobenda into jumping cross-up HK into combo. For whatever reason this works much better than cr.HK (cc), MK Ryobenda, command dash through. If they actually start waking up holding forward you can do a HK Ryobenda instead which will slow you you down enough to the point where they have to hold back to block the gas instead of forward and you can still combo your cross up HK.

Never, ever do cr.LP after a blocked st.HK. I have no idea why people do this but even in the top 200 you see plenty of Fangs doing this. Either do st.LK if you think it you will get a counter-hit into cr.MP, LP Sotoja or st.LP which will also lead to the same combo or keep frame advantage if they block that too.

Never, ever punish DPs with anything other than st.HP, LK command dash! Again I see high ranked Fangs doing massively sub-optimal combos like st.HP into cr.HK and it drives me nuts. Without meter or v-trigger you should be doing st.HP, lk command dash, st.HP, HP Sotoja. You can figure out where to add supers, EX moves and V Trigger cancels.

For anti-air, after cr.HP (2 hits) cancel into HK command dash into st.HK stops working, I’ve had some luck with: cr. HP (2 hits), walk forward a bit, then either grab or cr. MK. If the cr. MK hits it was probably a counter so you can do cr.MP, LP Sotoja. If they block the cr. MK just remember you are +2 and go from there.

Every now and then you will find yourself in a place with frame advantage but to far to combo anything or grab. Or you are right next to them behind them after a command dash. In these situations I’ve had good luck just doing st.LK, st.LP and if they are still close enough, st.LK. I think this does something like 99 damage and ends with you having slight frame advantage, so you can try for either a st.HP or risk a V Skill, Nishikyu or Ryobenda to start up your zoning game again. In a sense the massive pushback of normals in SF5 kind of helps him out here and I kind of feel this is how the character was meant to be played.

Thanks for sharing this SevenNine!

Where do you think Fangs strengths are? Mixup/rushdown or more zoning? or Hybrid?

Also, how do you setup after a hard knock down (cr.HK) when enemy player quick wake up?

[Haggarmania]

Would Fang be too overpowered if his ground poison didn’t disappear on hit? It’s frustrating when some does a jump in, but continues a full combo ignoring it while it’s out.

[ES_Curse]

Would Fang be too overpowered if his ground poison didn’t disappear on hit? It’s frustrating when some does a jump in, but continues a full combo ignoring it while it’s out.

To be short, yes. It practically wins the ground game for him in most match ups once out. Knowing what he gets after a cr.HP reset and how his projectiles arc (and do not disappear on hit), almost everyone would be unable to touch him once he gets it out. What version are you using? Sometimes try the MK one to recover faster if there is a risk. Also, throw out LP/MP shots predictively to shut that area down. If you get a good cycle down, he is still pretty hard to approach from full screen unless you are Nash.

Seriously, that character is the bane of FANG’s existence. His VT is pretty much a free ticket past your carefully built wall, and not punishable like a telegraphed Necalli rush.

[SevenNine]

Thanks for sharing this SevenNine!

Where do you think Fangs strengths are? Mixup/rushdown or more zoning? or Hybrid?

Also, how do you setup after a hard knock down (cr.HK) when enemy player quick wake up?

You have to get away with as much zoning as you can before going toe-to-toe with someone. Always try to get them poisoned early on in your zoning with either V-Skill or Nishikyu when they try to jump the V-Skill. Close range Fang to me means punishing they’re mistakes (lots of people just LOVE to jump at Fang) or playing a gentleman’s game of footsies (which Fang is decent at) until they start to get more defensive - at that point you can open them up with coward crouch K (which is +2) into either grab or counter hit st.LP into a combo, or a snotty V-Skill to repoison at close/medium range, or getting away from them somehow to restart your zoning. I have the most success when the other person is pressing a lot of buttons because I can counter hit and/or outrange them. When they stop pressing buttons you may feel a little lost about how to open them in normal SF terms, but thankfully Fang is not a normal character and passive play gives you a chance to poison them, go +2 on them, or start setting up traps like LP Nishikyu cancelled by EX command dash for mixups.

After cr. HK hits non-counter all you really have time for is to walk up and either grab or hit them with cr.MK to go +2 into a mixup.

[SodaPOP]

Agreed with just5moreminutes. Also consider the input motions. With Ryobenda, you can use it while moving and creating space but it goes away on hit, while Nishikyu requires you to hold down to throw them but they do not go away on hit, making them a potential combo breaker. So there’s a balance tradeoff between the two specials.

[jeffsgames]

[quote=“SevenNine, post:900, topic:177050”]

start setting up traps like LP Nishikyu cancelled by EX command dash for mixups.

Is this referring to when you knockdown the enemy? Cant you do this without EX command dash if enemy player doesnt quick wake up anyway? (Also dont do this on Enemy DP players)

[Pterodactyl]

This bastard is really syncing up with me. Having a lot of fun and success with him compared to most of the others.

[Haggarmania]

Would Fang be too overpowered if his ground poison didn’t disappear on hit? It’s frustrating when some does a jump in, but continues a full combo ignoring it while it’s out.

To be short, yes. It practically wins the ground game for him in most match ups once out. Knowing what he gets after a cr.HP reset and how his projectiles arc (and do not disappear on hit), almost everyone would be unable to touch him once he gets it out. What version are you using? Sometimes try the MK one to recover faster if there is a risk. Also, throw out LP/MP shots predictively to shut that area down. If you get a good cycle down, he is still pretty hard to approach from full screen unless you are Nash.

Seriously, that character is the bane of FANG’s existence. His VT is pretty much a free ticket past your carefully built wall, and not punishable like a telegraphed Necalli rush.

I figured, I’ve been trying to make use of the MK one more. It’s always been to tempting to go for the HK one for me. Oddly enough, I haven’t had much trouble with Nash myself, but I could see why it would be a bad match up. One trick that has helped me against Nash players is to use Fangs v-reversal right when he does an EX moonsault, which gives me just enough time to sweep him.

[Evangelyne]

Man, I’m gonna wait till the servers stabilize or something because I’m sick of losing to teleporting ryu’s and karins.

Also what’s a good meaty to use on wakeup/quick rise? I know we have heavy poison mine for hard knockdowns/delayed wake up, but don’t really know what to use for quick rise.

[koufdell]

Man, I’m gonna wait till the servers stabilize or something because I’m sick of losing to teleporting ryu’s and karins.

Also what’s a good meaty to use on wakeup/quick rise? I know we have heavy poison mine for hard knockdowns/delayed wake up, but don’t really know what to use for quick rise.

i suggest u go for meaties like st lp , 2 mk or even st hp in addition to the throw / block game
i posted the stuff i know in the combo/tech thread page2

[JuicyFresh]

Playing mostly a footsie game with Fang. I feel very unsafe when trying to zone with the purple rain. Anyone have any good setups for cross up fireballs?