Not even, I can’t think of a single BNB like that that’s not a easy as shit rekka chain or has juggles that makes stuff leinient. Yeah characters like Nameless/K9999, May Lee, Osawald, Angel, and Leona are hard but most other characters are pretty zzzz
The only stuff that’s hard in XIII is the stuf that most people aren’t even doing because it’s not necessary. DP xx HCBx2 is pretty hard, especially if you don’t know the shortcut, but unless you play Kula you’re pretty much never going to run into that input, and Kula players don’t really use it anyways.
Most HD loops in the game are like DP xx quarter circle, charge move xx fireball, or flash kick xx sonic boom. None of those are hard and take maybe a day of grinding to be able to pull off.
I fucked up not putting MvC2 in that list. However, some of the harder stuff seems to only come with the top tier characters. I wouldn’t say a character like Jill or B.B. Hood is that hard to use in that game. So, I’m going to agree with Tataki in that it’s more character specific than anything. Hell, Viper’s Rapid Seismos in UMvC3 are dumb ass hard to do for me. That HD stuff in KOF XIII is just crazy to see, but with some time, it’s probably not as hard as it looks. One thing I’m wondering is where Mortal Kombat’s execution gets difficult.
MvC2 is a hella simple game. if you can do double qcf motions to do an ultra or super in KOF then you can fly unfly
Yet another thread that doesn’t seem to grasp the difference between an execution barrier and an execution ceiling.
that is also an issue. but a small step would be to see what percentage of players are able to perform execution heavy tasks. the smaller the percentage, the more difficult the game will be
that should also be on the list. these AB cancel combos are ultra fast.
Ohhhhh. Braking in Garou is pretty crazy too. I completely forgot about that game. As far as I remember, it’s specific to certain specials. Something like an FADC or RC.
I must be weird in that I find shit harder to do in IV than in 3S.
as far as 3s goes. obviously what we listed already. Genei Jin and pretty much everything Urien does requires some time in training mode. you can include Makoto SA2 if you want to 100% stun every character. that’s some training mode grinding material too.
everything else though I think you can pick up within an hour even if you don’t have the experience of other fighting games. you can build a functionally complete Ken (from an execution standpoint) within a week if you know beforehand what you need to practice. none of his links are hard, none of his doable confirms are hard.
really the stuff that’s gonna be hard in 3s is the same as a lot of other fighting games - game knowledge (how do I deal with X kind of bullshit, or maybe how to correctly use parry), the ground game, movement, oki, defense. to me 3s is a very easy game to get into, and most of the time you spend improving is going to be figuring out all of that stuff.
I believe my issue with IV is how you have to do so much more for tge really damaging stuff. With 3S, depending on the character, you can just hitconfirm into 50% given enough meter. With IV, you need to do so much more (FADC) to get damage.
Fatal Fury Special
Art Of Fighting
Samurai Shodown
for real. I watch all this stuff ChrisG is doing with Sakura and I think “man I don’t have time for that.” just give me back my low forward -> super.
Back when I used to play Super, I actually took the time to get semi-consistent with Sakura’s combos. I could do the SRK FADC cancels and the loops. Then I took a break from the game to play some RPGs and when I went back I couldn’t do anything anymore. My execution with Sakura and Cammy was severely degraded, and I was even dropping some Ibuki BnB combos and mistiming setups that I used to know by muscle memory. I wasn’t having fun anymore.
I just outright quit. Relearning BnB combos? Ain’t nobody got time for that.
It’s like I keep telling everybody, the IV series is actually an execution intensive game simply due to all the knuckle-headed decisions they made, including (but not limited to) arbitrary execution barriers put in there “for the pros”.
At the highest levels of play, pretty much every game has hard shit. But most games also have easy entry-level execution. 3S, IV, and even MvC2 are really easy for beginners. Even GG isn’t hard. KOF has all these weird motions and strange input system (pressing a C/D followed a motion results in throw) that make things harder for people unfamiliar with the game. ST has hard entry-level execution. Everytime I introduce someone to the game they ask me what the input is for a DP. They don’t realize it’s the same, except that you have to do it faster. You can actually test this in anniversary edition. Pick a HF char vs an ST char. Try the same command for both characters (I tested DPs). ST has much less leniency.
In terms of reversals, the Alpha Series and VS have the hardest reversals from the games that I’ve played. True 1f reversals - you mess up, you have re-input the command (so you cannot piano the inputs).
I’ve read that Fate/Stay Night has tough execution execution requirements but I’ve never played it…
Fate/Unlimmited Codes has only though execution if you happen to want to make the high level “bnbs” that are very long and have some weird TK’s moves, but is character specific, some chars like Gilgamesh are quite easy to use.
The game is actually very simple and has a lot of stuff that is easy to do, many of my friends who are not too serious with FG’s but love the Nasuverse love playing the game they don’t even notice that the game is “hard”.
SF4’s abundance of 1 frame links never ceases to irritate me.
Tag 2 is a mighty demanding fighter
these threads always pop up every now and then, but execution threads are always fun.
mvc2 is not that hard once you realize you need to do shit way faster then you have ever done it before ever, but if you can hyper hop in kof, then you can walk on someones face with tri dash lights all day in mvc2. most of sents stuff is unnecessary unless youre khaos, or you just like to style. its a lot more strategy then anything else, with magneto being the pinnacle of execution mastery in mvc2. although im speaking from a biased point of view of course. lol
3s is way easier then people think. just watch the tutorials from nicoko from like almost a decade ago, and if you didnt get it before, you get it now. short short super shit is simple, people just dont understand buffering and hit stun. a lot of games give you more time then you think to execute fancy shit.
kof13 is easy unless youre styling, with only a few exceptions. every character can do 70 percent with 3 bars and hd, off of the most basic like 2 hit into 2 hit into lvl1 super into neomax. older kof’s are harder because theyre shitty. its really that simple. once you get use to it, it makes more sense, but if you have never played it, its like wtf its so hard.
@d3v nah youre right. even seth killian has said he thinks sf4 is more demanding then other sf’s, and it is to be honest. its just other scrubby ass mechanics overshadow its executional barrier, and also cviper. lol. mvc3 series is waaaaaaaay more execution heavy then any previous Vs games by a long shot. only people who dont play older Vs games would disagree with that sentiment. magneto magnetic blast combos into hyper grav loops of various styles in umvc3 imo off gate for a new to intermediate player is harder to grasp then rom in all the previous games hes been able to do it in.
tekken is easy execution wise, but if you havent gotten down back dash cancelling, you die. seriously, the rest is just learning the game basics, characters, and your top 10-15 move list, but you will eat so many counter hits and high damage combos by just back dashing wrong, its ridiculous. the only exception might be kings rolling death cradle, which has to be done fast and on some g shit.
all of samurai showdown is easy and mashy.
st has some hard links, but to be honest you dont need to know how to do them to be competitive because of how pressing the game is on fundamentals, how high damage is, and how fucking scrubby tick throwing is. st is overstated in so many ways in its greatness, hardness, etc… if for some unknown reason you are great with charge moves, just pick vega in ST, and see how easy it is to own souls without knowing much of shit. vega isnt my excuse to shit on st, its great at times and in its own way, but a lot about st is overstated as fuck, and the sf2 series in general. its really not as good as its amped up to be, but whatever.
i agree with whoever said it, but guilty gear is over stated a lot when it comes to hardness too. mainly because of all its mechanics and loops, but the mechanics can be learned in eh, 30 minutes unless youre retarded, and the loops in 2 hours. it really doesnt differ from many other games in the sense that you can do easier optimal combos, or go for the gusto and get more damage plus your mixup. most of guilty gears frustration for the execution illiterate is just the game mechanics and being able to focus on everything else while also being mindful of all the other shit defensively and offensively.
i mean, any game is hard for those who have literally mashed every fighting game until yesterday, with the exception of a few games being more mash friendly and low on execution for results, like ST, many samurai showdown games, etc…, but you wont get far competitively. but very few games are that hard once you get the basics down. like if you learn 3s and guilty gear, you have basically covered your ass execution wise for almost every game out there with the exception of tekken and learning light dashing and back dash cancelling, which are pretty much one in the same move depending on your technique.
this thread woulda been more interesting if it was a discussion on how to better your 1p and 2p sides of execution, because that is the unspoken issue for MANY fighting game players and noobs.
well actually (edit) also, out of all the fg’s ive played, and ive played almost all of them. well the ones relevant to most people, and not obscure fighters, or old shit no one remembers like primal rage, but samurai showdown is much more demanding on accurate motions then a lot of games ive played. its interesting. but the sf2 series is like that too if you have never played it before 2009, or havent played it since you last mashed it out drunkenly with friends.
there is no execution barrier in MvC2. the simple shit is still the simple shit at a high level, its just done faster.
take magneto for example. ROM is easy. magic series air dash up forward magic series is easy. hypergrav tempest is easy. ROM to double magic series to hypergrav tempest, OMG YOURE THE BEST.
if you can play vergil in mvc3 you can play magneto in mvc2. movement is king though because teleports aren’t very good and only strider and spiral have them