I decided to bump this thread because (Dave Chappelle voice):
The PS2 port sucks ass!!
So you guys know those South Park episodes where George Lucas and Steven Spielberg are randomly raping their fans and re-releasing shitty versions of their moves? See, yeah, this is totally a South Park episode.
Don’t mean to thread jack here but Elixir I have to disagree with some of what you’re writing here. First, Daifukkatsu 1.5 was put out to correct a counterstop problem in the original game, and I believe upgrades were initially free (that was my impression from reading the CAVE-STG thread) since there were literally bugs in the game. Adding the green helicopter was a bonus of sorts. Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 was also definitely a free revision due to the problems with 1.0 according to EOJ’s review of the game on cave-stg. So there is no money-making strategy to the 1.5s. That’s just CAVE screwing up unfortunately.
Re: the black label strategy, I agree and disagree. I think that Daioujou Black Label is the only BL that really fits what you’re arguing. Minor balance changes with no major upgrade = a new board. That’s CAVE wanting money (even though I prefer the BL version myself). But I would not call the black labels for Deathsmiles and Mushihimesama incremental upgrades. They’re significantly different games, both with their own appeal, which is why my local arcade for instance has both versions of each game in operation. Mushi Futari Black did really well in arcades because it offered an excellent new style of gameplay, but Deathsmiles BL, which offers a new character, stage and scoring system, did not fare as well and I’ve read 2ch talk saying that the game basically flopped at arcade. A game like Ibara is massively upgraded in its BL version, and has to be significantly reprogrammed, so a new board is understandable.
I wouldn’t want CAVE to rewrite the ROM on the PCBs to ‘upgrade’ games when in fact they’re creating a remixed version of them. There’s also not the pressure that Examu has here which is: buy the SBO version or players won’t bother with your arcade. There’s still people playing Futari 1.5 and Deathsmiles original at my local arcade for instance.
Edit: I think one place you could criticize CAVE is adding mechanics to the game that force players to play nearly perfectly to have any chance of scoring well. For instance if you don’t pop the hidden boss route in Daifukkatsu, your score is basically done for. In Deathsmiles MBL, any miss will knock a significant amount off your plus value and significantly affect your end game score. These mechanics are going to make players put in more coins per visit, which could be described as shrewd game making or a pseudo-scam depending how you look at it. 
Yeah, Examu sucks. I mean… They must have had a hunch that this port wouldn’t fly. They should have put it on another platform. PC preferably imo… Because I don’t have a next gen console, plus there are no licenses or things like that to make a PC game.
And the not 2.6-thing is just… That’s just being mean.
So…I was driving to my appointment around 3:30pm. Being the type of guy I am, I worried about the traffic, even though rush hour wasn’t for another hour and a half.
As I’m driving out of my neighborhood towards the freeway, I think to myself, “I hope the lag isn’t ba – wait, I mean the traffic.” I shit you not, that’s what I actually thought to myself.
This has affected me a great deal, even to the point my normal train of thought is in fear of lag affecting my everyday life. Fuck this shit.
EXAMU SUCKS, I WANT MY FUCKINg MONEY BACK
me too
but if they suddenly release another port and say “yeah this one is good, seriously this time” I will probably have it on preorder the moment I can because I like arcana heart, and more importantly, I’m stupid. :<
long ass post coming up
The problem with Futari is that 1.0’s final boss was basically impossible, but my major gripe with upgrading is that it’s fucking expensive and I can’t keep up with it. They keep releasing “final” versions and everyone shifts to them - same thing happens with fighters. So what happens to those people who own the original version and can’t afford to upgrade? What about those people who aren’t sure if they’re going to make a mistake in purchasing a PCB when an upgrade could be announced within a month? I was going to purchase Death Smiles before the port was announced. I ended up selling Ketsui when the port was announced. The upgrades are nice, but they’re not free, according to EOJ:
That’s another problem entirely. I own a Futari 1.5 kit and I like it. From what I’ve played of a friend’s Futari BL board, I don’t like it as much. They’ve changed stuff to the point where scoring is different and more complicated, and God Mode was added because Ultra was “too difficult”. But they sacrificed availability by limiting characters, since in 1.5, you have Normal/Abnormal Reko/Palm. Sad thing is, people have moved to it, when 1.5 was perfectly fine to begin with. Basically, Futari BL isn’t necessary. MBL isn’t necessary. DOJ BL is actually pretty significant, because the second loop is far harder but the first loop is easier, making it way easier for people to 1cc the game. That’s more way more welcoming to people wanting to play the game.
But things like Ibara BL, I agree. They’re basically new games and for the better.
That strategy’s been around since the early 80’s. Capcom manuals tell coin operators to “increase the difficulty to shorten their time, so most people have around 3 minutes maximum” to maximize profits. A lot of the older games (early 90’s, late 80’s) are really fucking hard and done so on purpose.
If you think Cave games are made for fun and not profit, you’re wrong. This industry has defied logic and made little sense when people have tried to apply logic to it, but they’ve always been making games for profit. All of them. A very few make games for “fun” (ie. Katamari) but they’re arcade games for a reason. The console ports? Well, when the game becomes unpopular/old in the arcades, they try to maximize profit by porting their game to a console for even more profit.
Ecole did the same thing with AH2. 5pb did the same with DOJBLEX. Warashi did the same with Exelica for PS2. It’s all for the sake of profit. Funny thing is, all three of those games have shitty ports, but people are going to buy them thinking that they’re just like their arcade counterparts.
If it’s not broken, don’t fix it. That’s what I say. Since post-2002, Cave have been guilty of making upgrades that aren’t necessary, like MBL. I don’t know when the fuck to buy Cave PCBs any more, because they’re just as likely to announce a newer version. I’m waiting for Daifukkatsu BL.
On topic: Yeah, AH2 CS sucks.
You should have downloaded the game as a “trial” before buying it. It’s not that they’re losing a sale anyways, as America is not a market until a localization is released.
I just wanted to point out that again, the 1.5 versions were free when they were put out.
EOJ here:
Same with Daifukkatsu, the only other game that had a 1.5 upgrade. There is a window in which the exchange is free, and after that CAVE charges the various PCB shops for the upgrades. I want to defend CAVE here because despite their failings, they definitely weren’t doing what you were saying which is releasing boards and then charging arcades for upgrades to fix very basic problems. Arcade operators that send the boards in within the window are not losing any money. I think this is one aspect of CAVE’s business that speaks for them, since they quickly clean up any problems their games have post-release. Whereas fighters with infinites and whatnot remain in arcades for months.
As for the BL discussion, I respect your opinion but like Futari BL much more than the original, mostly because of maniac and I didn’t think abnormal characters added much to the game. Mega Black Label wasn’t strictly necessary, but a new level + character + lvl999 + scoring system + elimination of some safe spots make it a pretty significant remix, I’d say close to Ibara BL in terms of being a totally new game. Ultimately I think DOJ BL should have been a board revision and not a whole new board.
To be honest, the first time I heard of the word “Examu” it sounded like some sort of exotic tropical disease. I liked their older name much more.
But yeah, it’s a pretty sorry state of affairs. I can only hope they could learn from their mistakes and probably report AH2 to a next-gen console * without* the retarded stuff that happened in the PS2 port.
One can wonder how will they treat Daemon Bride. I doubt much folks are hyped towards this considering the…rather “interesting” designs.
Although what they are doing is over priced I think its always good when a company actually trys to fix or upgrade games after they have been released. I also think a training mode is a great idea for an arcade board but maybe more like a dip switch setting so people who buy the board for personal use or the arcade operator can decide weather to use it or not.
Also nothing beats cps2 cps3 suicide batteries for the most messed up way of making extra money on an arcade game that way already fully paid for. I cant think of any other arcade boards which by design would stop working after the battery died. I know several people who have had to buy 3rd strike several times because the battery keeps failing and at $300~600 a pop thats bull. Even if you go through the trouble of replacing the battery thats really only buying you time. I had a Red Earth with a new battery die on me and now its just a $600 paper weight. I would much rather have an out dated 3rd strike than a dead one. :rolleyes:
suicide battery is a copyright protection measure, it has nothing to do with trying to make extra money. it worked pretty well for a while too.
I was going to purchase ah2 but now I won’t.
My wallet has spoken, it said, “SCREW YOU EXAMU.”
Curse you examuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!
at this point, Examu’s making AH a fapfest for pedophiles.
I like burgers, just like the ones the PR guy at Examu eats. Good stuff good stuff.