You don’t understand that people want to explore another area of the game instead of literally banning it right away without any tournament results? The top players with items off will still end up being the top players with items on… IF they can adapt to the playstyle. There are no random bombs dropping mid attacking and killing you with this ruleset. Items can give you an advantage but also can be avoided.
Akuma was proven to be broke, Cstrife is right.
Akuma was proven to be broken how ?
What empirical evidence was presented that akuma is broken ?
Just wondering so the smash community knows what kind of evidence is needed of them come next year ?
And all you’ve done is restate “Can be avoided” so can Akuma.
I’m still really interested in getting a copy of the plans to the time machine SWF used to gain years of experience testing brawl out. If anyone would sent me a pdf of them, that would be great.
OK, I’m an SWF’er by nature, so some of you vets correct me if I’m wrong, but Akuma could do things that were literally outside of every other characters ability to do and to counter.
These included air fireball and his red fireball which were both so fast and retardedly difficult to get around that it made winning as anyone other than akuma impossible if akuma were allowed. The opponent would literally be able to do nothing but block in the corner once you started firing red fireballs, and no character had the ability to maneuver inside the air fireball without making themselves vulnerable to easy punishment.
These things made Akuma literally impossible to beat. Items, on the other hand, can be picked up by both players and are not unbeatable. This is the difference. You can avoid items, whereas you can’t avoid akuma.
again, ST players please correct me if I’m wrong.
You are correct. The problem with Akuma in Street Fighter II Turbo was that he was “imbalanced” in versus play. However, even though he was imbalanced, a newbie playing as Akuma could still be beaten by a pro. The issue became when a pro picked up Akuma. Even when faced against someone who was better skilled, the pro who is playing Akuma will almost always win (I say almost because the person is still human and can make mistakes, but most likely those mistakes are not enough to cost him/her the match). In other words, the tournaments would simply boil down to Akuma vs Akuma.
Here is an article by David Sirlin that deals with banning in general, and it does cover the Akuma issue:
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/intermediates-guide/what-should-be-banned/
You can avoid Akuma it’s just a matter of skill just like avoiding Items by “Controlling the stage”.
And how exactly are items that make you invulnerable or unaproachable beatable ?
And both players can pick Akuma just like both players can pickup items.
Edit: What i’m asking for is definite evidence of the kind that the smash community needs to show.
The post above you explains it quite well.
Items do not even compare. A lot of them are powerful, yes. But your options are never compromised because they’re there. A JigglyWOP or a well placed Pound is still a good, viable option whether I have a Smash Ball, a Sword, a Pokeball or nothing at all. Likewise, just having a Smash Ball or Pokemon does not null and void all possible alternative options on both sides and harm competitiveness.
At least, not yet. That is still up for tournament results and testing to decide. But I don’t think so, at any rate.
You needed to show that item (or a certain item) degenerate the game to the point that its ‘akuma vs akuma’ (everyone picking the same thing or playing the same way because nothing else can compete).
This will simply never be the case with items. Even the ones that can be very powerful do not compare to some of the imbalance found in many capcom games that we allow. Items off people should be THRILLED with this compromise of a ruleset. You will not be forced to learn how to deal with some of the more powerful items, or have to adjust play style to compensate for falling explosives. You also got some of the more unorthodox stages disallowed. The learning curve isnt nearly what it would be if Evo had truly ignored items-off players and went with something close to All-brawl.
So you really see no difference in a character who has an air fireball he can literally spam the entire match (that is slow and goes at an angle that makes it so he can do whatever he wants while the fireball is still out. The game wasn’t made to handle something like that.), can red fireball trap someone in the corner and literally would make the game Akuma vs Akuma.
vs
An item that you can pick up and use, and isn’t permanent.
You must be trolling or you really just have no idea how much your own flawed arguement destroys you. Akuma was not banned within the first few months the game came out. Also there is no known way ‘spam’ an item endlessly that shuts down the game to the point that the game will become Item vs Item. The closest thing are smash balls, which you both have to work for / can be dodged / can be hit out of your opponent. You can’t spam smash balls…
You can avoid Akuma to a certain extent, but not indefinitely. He has so much zoning power that it is impossible to stay away from him. With the way block-stunned is designed for SSF2T, once you’re in a corner, you have literally no way of getting out. A few MIGHT stand a chance (Ryu/Ken), but by that time, you are vulnerable, while Akuma is not.
Even though both players can pick Akuma, it was laid to rest that he was too powerful, when the entire Top 8 of tournaments are nothing but Akuma. If you were around back in 1994, you would’ve seen the Akuma vs Akuma mirror matches at every tournament until he was eventually banned (trust me, it was VERY boring). He became so detrimental to the game (he is the only valid choice) that it was necessary to ban him.
If you’re going to look for “proof” of these Akuma tournaments, you’ll either have to dig up some very old alt.games.sf2 records from Newsgroups or archives of some BBS boards that contain the information as the Internet didn’t exist much beyond those things in 1994.
If you want to provide proof, the Sirlin link has already been linked previously, pretty much states how/why things should be banned. That’s pretty much what the SRK mentality of thinking is. If it can be proven that whatever in question is detrimental to the gameplay that it becomes the only viable option, then it should be banned. The diamond glitch in Puzzle Fighter, while extremely powerful, wasn’t banned. The multitude of crazy glitches/techniques in MvC2, some of which were thought to be unbeatable, are not banned and have counters to them. Most cards in Magic: the Gathering aren’t banned until it’s proven that all the top 8 players are packing the same ones and then they put a ban on it. Those are what instigate the necessary bans.
So far, there hasn’t been anything so detrimental in Brawl that warrants a ban. The rules are a compromise between the no-item and pro-item groups whether anyone wants to believe it or not. There’s only about half of the items that are in and the ones that are actually in are the weaker ones (not all mind you). The choice for stage/character selection has both “winner keeps character” and the Advance Slobs picks.
It’s time to just quit complaining about the ruleset and see that both parties have parts of the way they play the game in it and decide if they wanna practice and go or not.
Some ST Jpn tourneys allowed Akuma in a tourney and Akuma player got laid the fuck out in the middle of the street,shits on youtube look it up yourself.
P.S don’t compare a classics like ST to “games” like smash…:wtf:
I still see no definite evidence.
I’m not gonna makeup my mind based on the conclusion you guys have come to over the evolution of the entire franchise as a collective community.
Hold some top level Akuma allowed tournaments and record. Show me them and i’ll go over them and point out wheter it was won by skill or Akuma being broken.
I mean it’s not like CE SF2 is the same as ST.
And you’re gonna have to hold some new Akuma allowed tournaments when SF2 HD is released (If he is in it)
http://blog.capcom.com/archives/577
The Akuma in Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix will be different from the original Akuma in Street Fighter II Turbo.
Missing the point.
no items in this ruleset are invulnerable or unaproachable save final smashes, which I do not approve of for 1v1 play (just my opinion). I actually think no-item play is more fun and deep, I just think you’re using stupid examples to prove your point. All bringing up Akuma does is prove your lack of knowledge on the subject.
Oh no i’m not gonna go look for one of the many threads on the subject.
You’ll have to find me the information and host new tournaments with top level players to prove it to me.
You host a tournament if you want the info and prove it to yourself. 
Guess that’s kinda what evo is doing then.
Yeah EVO host SF tournaments kinda…:wtf: