I definitively think that you are not understanding what im writing, must be my not so good english.
Even if I have been talking about raw s.HP xx Hadoken (Im talking about c.LP, cl.HP xx Hadoken), its not punisheable by any of those in your list but Seth and Ryu’s supers (that are the ones I listed previously as punishers). You had some work moving the post and then replying it so I think you care about it a bit, you could have done at least some testing.
Im not going to reply about the other things because I really think its going to be useless after what I read in your post.
Actually I just tested it, Ryu cr.hk punishes raw s.hp xx lp hadouken. So does Cammy’s super, Fei Long’s super, Chun Li EX legs, Chun Li super, Ken hp super, Vega cr.mp, Gouken’s sweep, and Guile hk flash kick. Everything else on that list shouldn’t punish. I would have tested if I had access to the game when you asked me what punished. The fireball usually hits 1 frame meaty in that cancel from point blank, making it -5 (depends on character). The pushback from the raw s.hp is more than I expected.
If you do cr.lp s.hp xx lp hadouken, all of the above punish except for Ken hp super.
Also, you did say that Evil Ryu had no safe way to hit-confirm into his main combo. cl.mp xx mk axe kick is a true blockstring and only -2 on block. It leads to cr.mp xx lk tatsu on standing opponents and cr.mp xx hp srk on crouchers (seemed 100% consistent on my tested, done on Blanka, Vega, Chun, Ryu, and a couple others).
You can combo off CH cr.mp into cr.hp xx mk axe kick up close. Which lets you get an axe kick combo. Yeah, if you’re autopiloting the opponent can reversal in between the cr.hp and the axe kick on block. But that doesn’t mean it’s not useful, and it gives E Ryu a way to combo off CHs into 400 damage. And like I said before, E Ryu has great frame trap potential from most ranges because far s.mp xx mk axe kick combos on CH and then combos into cr.mp xx hp uppercut consistently.
Do you remember that Im talking about out of the corner stuffs? theres a post of me in the other topic clarifiying that. I had to ask that, coz some of what you wrote in the post im quoting now is wrong. Neither Ryu and Gouken’s sweep punish the c.LP, cl.HP xx hadoken string. I think you took to much time between the c.LP and the cl.HP when recording the dummy, what caused Evil Ryu to walk a few pixels forward before to execute the cl.HP.
About Ken’s HP super, it wont even punish the raw cl.HP xx hadoken string. Thats why I asked you if you read my post about the corner stuff. Ken’s super wont work unless one of the 2 chars are cornered.
Afterall, this is all I found that are punishers for the c.LP, cl.HP xx hadoken:
claw’s c.mp
guile’s hk fhask kick
bison’s mk
chun’s ex legs (2 hits)
seth/ryu/chun/fei supers (full damage)
dhalsim’s super (2hits)
To dhalsim’s super to hit you have to block the LP and HP while crouching, and to stand up and block the hadoken, otherwise his super will miss.
9 punishments, there must to be a few others in the game. 8 chars. Is that a lot for you? Seens more like a few, just as I said in the other topic:
And 5 of them are supers so you are safe untill they fill theirs bars up.
In the other topic you just blamed someone because he posted something that was wrong
Someone:
You:
Someone:
You:
And later you ends it with this pearl:
You are posting wrong and bad informations all the way around here dude, you dont even test the stuffs you post. Seens to me that you get really pleased while posting, dont matter if its a lot of wrong bullshit.
Back to your post now:
Once again Im talking about c.LP, cl.HP xx MK axe kick. To use while frametrapping. In 95% of the cases im talking about, the opponent will be crouching so the combos and resets are going to be a lot different if you use the cl.MP instead of the cl.HP.
Other than that, its a good information, cl.MP xx MK axe kick beeing a true block string.
Once again Im talking about the c.LP, cl.HP xx axe kick. If youre suggesting me to use c.MP instead of the c.LP, I already posted why thats not possible in most of the cases when frametrapping, take a look at my first posts because theres the explanation of why its not possible to use it.
By the way, I NEVER said c.MP, cl.HP xx MK axe kick is not usefull.
And I got curious, what do you mean with autopiloting? You mean those cases when you apply the entire string w/o confirming if the opponent got hit by the first hit?
Ryu and Gouken’s sweeps definitely punish cr.lp s.hp xx lp hadouken. I recorded the string so that it combo’d. IE frame perfect, no gap. I record E Ryu to walk forwards, cr.lp s.hp xx lp hadouken. Then I held down back for at least 3-4 seconds. Then I set it to playback. I crouch block both hits of the string and plink sweep. This was midscreen.
In order to list what punishes a specific string with pushback like cr.lp s.hp xx hadouken requires a lot more effort than to look at the frame data on this very site and recite a number. So I apologize for posting untrue information, but you were pushing me to list shit because you’re so concerned about putting me on blast. Like I said before, I underestimated the pushback on s.hp and I couldn’t test the game when you practically demanded that I make a list of all the things that would punish that string.
Still, it was my fault for posting shit without testing. It’s not fair to say I don’t test the shit I say, because usually I do. I’ve spent many hours testing character specific stuff for SRK. Most of the time I don’t just list stuff by frame data. Sorry.
Also CH cr.mp cr.hp (which is what I was talking about in the post above) combos from farther out than cl.hp range.
By autopiloting I was arguing that the gap in between s.hp/far mp/cr.mk and mk axe kick doesn’t matter too much unless you just do it every time in a blockstring. It’s like Rufus’s s.hp xx hp galactic tornado - technically punishable every time but the mental energy required takes your mind off other things when you need to worry about - divekicks, EX messiah, throws, etc.
I was wondering what you guys thought of E. Ryu’s Super in AE 2012 doing more damage than Akuma’s.
I am confuzzled as to the logic that the master / inventor of a move does less damage then another person who gave in to the murderous intent
I suppose one way to look at it is Akuma has an easier time of landing his (kara demon, df palm demon, etc) but E. Ryu seems to have some sick nasty kara demons of his own
Oni got the same change, also. I think in AE, his air demon does 370. They buffed his grounded demon and evil ryu’s to 370. I wouldn’t be to surprised if Akuma got the change also, and if he didn’t, it’s just because akuma is already a finished character, not needing any damage buffs.
Hey you are totally right about Gouken and Ryu’s sweeps and I have to apologise here. I was starting the recording with a dash to make sure that E.Ryu was at point blank, but it seens that hes not at point blank RIGHT after the dash ends. There was a certain time I recorded the string and I could to punish it with Ryu’s sweep, then I re recorded it and I couldnt punish it anymore. Probably I walked forward a frame or 2 after the dash in that recording and didnt notice, later I tough my E.Ryu walked 1 frame between the c.lp and the cl.hp, but he actually walked after the dash. Today I ran a few more tests and understood what was going wrong.
Sorry if I pushed you too hard, that wasnt my intention at all. I was just really sure that just a few moves in the game could to punish that string, and later when you suggested some punishments I knew that most of them just didnt work. Sorry if my posts seemed too rude, that was not my intention at all.
No problem
I understand your point, but theres one thing. Do you remember Mr. Naps’ match against Justin Wong in a certain tournament a few months ago? He punished almost every HP xx HP GL with shoryuken. Everybody knows that cl.HP xx hp GT isnt a true block string but what a lot of people dont know and Mr. Naps probably knew (and I just discovered recently, while testing E.Ryu’s cl.HP into MK axe kick to be more precise) is that Rufus’ cl.HP is unsafe on block. So if somebody blocks Rufus’ cl.HP all he have to do is to mash a DP and be happy. The same thing happens to work against E. Ryu. If somebody start mashing after he sees the cl.HP he will hit E.Ryu or to block anything Evil uses that result in a true block string, like a hadoken or LK axe kick. And in Lk axe kick’s case, E. Ryu will be punished right after it ends unless he FADC it.
Thats why Im looking for the hadoken to finish the string when it get blocked. Otherwise I wont use to frametrap against good and well informed players, I will to use it only for punishment or after a successful jump in, that will most likely to happen after a hard knock down, that isnt E.Ryu’s speciality imo.
So E. Ryu’s opponents dont need to SEE the MK axe kick and to do a ninja shoryuken before it gets active, they just need to see the cl.HP and then start mashing.
Thats why a LK Axe Kick with frame advantage on block would be so amazing to E.Ryu imo, But by what Ive been reading over here it seens like the LK AK wont have frame advantage, it was just a translation mistake.
Yeah, I understand that s.hp is always unsafe even if you don’t cancel it with Evil Ryu and that you can always just reversal uppercut it. Well, you can do s.hp XX EX Hado or EX tatsu or something like that. If your opponent is consistently punishing your s.hp’s, you could always be extremely gimmickly and cancel it into a teleport. Then they whiff their uppercut and hopefully you could punish. Also if they’re waiting for you s.hp, they’re not mashing throw tech. Which gives you a lot of leniency with staggered jabs, kara throws, and overheads. Do you have a link to the match? I bet Mr Naps didn’t tech many throws because he was looking for the lk lk hp string. Obviously your opponent’s reactions and ability to look for multiple things at once changes what you can get away with.
Yeah, lk axe kick being plus on block would be sooo ridiculously unfair that I knew it had to be wrong. cr.mp s.mp xx lk axe kick, cr.mp s.mp xx lk axe kick… I hope you have a good reversal!
Hey guys, just figured I’d take a minute to say hello. I am looking to start training hard with E.R. because I think he will compliment my Dudley well for some of the matches I really struggle in. Also, I just love the character. Anyway, apologies if I ask some stupid questions in the near future, I’ll do my best to try and read up first.
After re-watching Tokido’s match against Art in Grand Finals of CEO 2011, I came across this again but this time it got me wondering.
Evil Ryu is suppose to have the same jumping HK as Akuma so it should also work right? I tested it out and it does work, not only against Rose but against most characters if not all just depending on the timing. The other thing is that since Evil Ryu’s dash is much better then Akuma’s, you can’t copy the 2 cr. LK’s that Tokido does. But I found that cr. MP works pretty well.
So it works in theory, don’t know about actual matches though.
Not sure it’s the same thing. Rose seems to be standing for a little longer before the hit in your evil ryu vid compared to what tokido seems to be doing. I think it’s the difference between the character’s forward throws that is forcing you to jump in later to get a similar effect.
I’ve noticed that when a character gets up with them facing you (ie. face up, feet towards you) then they have a standing frame. When they are facing away then they don’t have a forced standing frame. With akuma’s forward throw they are facing you, while with e. ryu’s they are facing away.This affects wake-up mixups heavily, especially jump-ins.
You can get a forced stand after Evil Ryu’s forward throw. A setup for a crossup is throw, cr.mk, hold up forwards. You have to block the crossup if you time it right. It’s not really a safe jump though. It might be a safe jump on Sagat?
Pretty much that’s how I felt as well when I further examined it. I haven’t tested it to see if you could simply just walk under it during wake up, but it sure looks that way. I’ll test it out some more to see if it can be done close to the timing that Tokido used, but if not then I guess we can scratch this idea out.
UPDATE: Now I’m a little confused. I’ve never actually attempted mix ups like this so I’m not sure how they work. But I recorded Evil Ryu doing this while I controlled Rose and blocked it how I would if I were in the situation.
First off, i couldn’t walk or dash under the the j. HK, which is good. But what threw me off is that if you block it as a cross up, you will block the j. HK even though you are never crossed you up. And continuing to block the wrong way will allow you to block anything that comes out afterward.
Is this different then how it works with Akuma? Meaning, when Tokido did this with Akuma, did Art get hit because he blocked it as a cross up when it didn’t? Just wondering because I’ve done a lot of testing and the result is the same, blocking it as a cross up works and makes this mix up practically useless. You’re better off with the ambiguous j. LK because it doesn’t cause enough block stun for your opponent to block whatever you do afterward.
Dunno know if it’s posted, but here is some gimmicky E. Ryu bullshit that actually works from time to time.
forward throw > f+MK (whiff) > s.HP.
It looks like you’ll corpse hop, but you wind up on the same side. I’ve actually landed this on a few people. I’m going to the lab to see if i can actually corpse hop folks. Sagat as a slower wake up timing, so you’ll have to delay it by a few frames to make it look official, but for the majority of the cast it’s hard to tell.