nah, you can see the specific frame of animation of the kara-ed move in kara cancels.
In training, I know when I do/don’t RC cause I’m looking for the roll animation. Yes, that includes Vega’s RC ball.
when I kara jab 360 with gief in A3 I know I did it right cause I see the jab whiff.
if you’ve ever seen kara f+MP raging demon, you’ll know that the kara is what makes it so good.
Not to be too off topic, but it’s not really that hard to discern kara-ed moves, reacting on time is the hard part. However, I certainly know it’s possible, it’s just a matter of looking for it.
All jabhadouken is saying is that kara cancelling a move that trains your opponent to stand up and block certainly helps elena’s throw to be more effective.
I’m not sure about you guys, but I never leave my eyes off my opponent’s character when I fight. my control is so solid on my character that I just watch and react to my opponent the whole match. Once you get in the game and start paying attention to your opponent character, if you know what to watch for, seeing the first 3 frames of animation isn’t that hard. The hard part is deciding how you’re going to react. Can you parry? do you block? do you uppercut? do you tech hit? do you jump? do you counter attack with a move? it’s that thought process that slows down your reaction time. discerning a kara isn’t that hard.
Nobody has claimed they have a 3 frame reaction time. The claim is that it is possible to SEE the animation. Chun’s jab is 2 frames, when she low jabs xx supers you can SEE the jab right? a Kara throw is very similar, if you know what you’re looking for it’s just as possible to see the initial 3 frame start up of the move.
f+MK LP+LK
it’s like a backwards roll cancel or backwards claw depending on what game you play.
But I did notice that you did not claim to be able to react to it, so I apologize.
Anyway, kara is done as callmeanewb mentioned. First, forward+mk to move you forward, which is then quickly canceled into LP+LK throw. If this is your first attempt at a kara throw, many find akuma’s kara throw (forward+mp quickly follwed by LP+LK) a little easier to practice for timing, as, if it is performed successfully, you should see the throw animation and hear the “grunt” akuma makes from the forward+mp, but not see it come out.
Elena’s kara-throw has similar timing to akuma’s. If you’re performing it on a stick, I think the best way to execute it is to use your fourth (ring) finger to tap mk (or middle finger on mp for akuma), and then quickly press lp+lk with index and thumb. To get an idea of the speed you should hit these in succession, you should barely be able to distinguish two separate taps, one from the mp/mk, and one from the throw input. You can practice this by drumming your fingers on a surface; hearing one loud tap means you’re doing it too fast (you cancel too fast and get very little extra range), and two taps too separated means you’re doing it too slow (you don’t cancel the mp/mk and it comes out). I’ve been told this takes about a month or two to master, which was about accurate for me.
you can see the jab not because it has 2 frames of startup, but because it has 2 frames of startup, an active time and a recovery time. which would add up to, just a wild guess on the number here, maybe 8 frames. your brain can only comprehend the motion, not the individual image, because it’s moving so fast, so while the kara throw looks jerky, it’s near impossible to see the f+mk, even when looking for it, because that 3 frames of animation only has elena butt upward for 3 frames.
i’m not saying it’s impossible to see the actual kara throw, but its impossible to think “hey thats a f+mk not a throw coming out”. you can’t react to an animation that hasn’t fully shown whats going on and is blending into the other animation based on how the brain comprehends movement.
the reason you see the move during supers is because of an after image. since nothing changes during the super freeze, you still “see” the f+mp of a kara demon for a split second. this will happen when you kara anything with a freeze after it. hell the movie you showed me is kind of bullshit in itself, mostly because the youtube video runs at a low fps, and actually captured the f+mp, actually showing it for more than 4 frames, because it captures specific keyframes, and shows them along with a motion blur.
example as in that video, the only thing being captured is the motion blur of kara hk demon for one frame, which is less than a normal kara demon would show!
a better example! you don’t even see q do anything but actually throw a few pixels forward! notice how with elena you only see her body move in shape, but nothing that actually shows any detail of the move happening! impossible to tell its a f+mk! the super freeze of kara demon is causing the visibility of f+mp.
well kara throws are hella useful to learn because the motion is pretty applicable in multiple fighting games. OSing in earlier GGs, roll canceling etc, all use extremely similar motions
Evidently my point needs to be explicated further. I assumed that when I stated that
it would be understood by most people that the implication was:
Opponent sees start-up,
Opponent goes to block/otherwise counter,
Opponent gets thrown/hit.
Or:
I truly didn’t believe that it would be that difficult to infer.
My mistake.
…and as I and callmeanewb have asserted, one can see it coming.
If you, yourself, can’t, I really don’t know what to say…
Henaki:
brilliantnaoki:
If you see something flying at you in this game, you tend to react [properly]- or else get hit . If you can’t tell what’s coming, it’s that much more difficult to react properly.
Of course this assumes that you actually mix-up the f.MK and the kara throw, lol (for some strange reason, I felt the need to qualify this).
yes
but seeing 3 frames of movement canceled into a another 20 ain’t gonna make you see a f+mk. it will make you see something, but no one can discern a f+mk from a kara throw without bullettime or a freeze either right after the f+mk (supercancel) or frameskip.
gouki’s kara-demon with fwdMP is completely different from what you’re talking about
you can see more easily the fwdMP animation simply because gouki doesn’t need to cancel its startup into demon on the first 3 frames. demon can cancel any normal at (almost?) any point, so the window is much larger compared to regular kara-throwing… it’s the entire fwdMP startup.
besides, if the kara-window was only 3 frames true kara-demon wouldn’t be technically possible.
. If you can’t tell what’s coming, it’s that much more difficult to react properly.