19

Lol I had just found it online and was gonna post it on the thread when I seen you already had. Definitely gonna keep messing around with Elena and see what else I can find. Also I should point out that the crossup setup ending with the hk scratch wheel you can only do midscreen. So if you donā€™t want to push them all the way to the corner only do one rhino horn then end with hk scratch wheel.

20

So I have been messing around with Elena a bit and Iā€™m not sure if this was talked about in any of the topics but I figured Iā€™d share, and it has to do with how I view and play Elena.

I think Elena is a relentless lockdown character who will keep you guessing every second once she gets in with a deadly high/low mixup game that also enhances with the playerā€™s ability to read the opponent. The way she accomplishes this is with her lynx tail pressure. As you may know by know, after a blocked lynx tail, she is free to move once both hands are on the ground, canceling the rest of the attackā€™s animation. At the start of this, you can simply follow with a s.:lk: to continue which will give you a counter hit if your opponent hits a button and do whatever from there.

But then it gets even trickier from there, because after a blocked lynx tail, you could just go right into an overhead from the animation. Or perhaps you might even go with a mallet smash to get a nice high attack and combo after it. Or maybe you notice your opponent likes to push a button at times, so after a lynx tailā€¦ RAW LAUNCH THAT SHIT!

And then you still have options after that of course. For one, all of the lynx tail pressure I spoke of involved the :lk: version. You can actually sometimes catch people off guard with the :hk: version because theyā€™ve been conditioned to only have the one set of kicks hit, rather than the 2 that the :hk: provides. You could also alter the timing of when you make your next move. This means you allow the handstand animation to run longer to lull your opponent into a false sense of security and lure out a button if you believe they will do that.

The best way to sum up Elena in my mind is that she plays a lot more like a Tekken character in the game, keeping up pressure while incorporating a dealy high/low aspect of it. She just achieves this with a combination of specials and normals, unlike the Tekken cast where usually that comes in the form of Tekken strings.

21

You can also tag cancel Lynx Tail to add any shenanigans your partner has to the above-style of mixups. The longer versions give me enough time to start Kingā€™s elbow rush 50/50, for instance, while the shorter allows for a tick throw of sorts. What would be nice is if lk Tail had enough blockstun so your incoming character could punish a Raw Launcher, but I am in China so I cannot test. The TC options are heavily Alpha Counterable, so it would be badass if we had a bait.

22

I have been doing this a lot more recently and would agree that itā€™s pretty effective for safe tags. Also, when you tag cancel the HK Lynx Tail, you can have incoming character perform a dash, which will make the last hit whiff. Doing so leaves the target in a prolonged standing stun state, allowing for fun combos.

Example:
HK Lynx Tail, tag cancel (Bryan comes in), Bryan Cl. HP xx MP Fishermanā€™s Slam, Cr. LP, F + MK > MP > LP xx Mach Breaker.

23

Back from SF4 scene bearing gifts!
BnBs
Elena players need to step their BnBs up.
Cr.lkx2 > st.mp is a 2 frame link and allows you to get your mixup game going between Mallet smash, CADC, and lynx tail, since st.mp is 2 hit and it gives you time to confirm if the opponent is standing or not.
Best of all it yields the same damage as linking into cr.mp without the 1 frame link or risk of being launcher bait in blockstrings.

Kara Throws
Elena has 2 kara throws from what I can tell st.lp and st.HK
St.Lp is the worse out of the two and the most detrimental as you actually move backwards a good sizeable amount if you mistakenly perform a kara throw (koto habits). Whereas St.HK moves her forward by a noticeable amount.

Both move in their respective directions depending on how much you delay the throw input. The sooner you press it the sooner you press it the less distance you get.

The maximum I got them to move was about half of the training stage tiles, which again sucks if you kara lp throw by mistake.

Random stuff
Despite Far.HP being garbage and widely overlooked with good reason. This move beats out dominant air to airs clean, but the timing is variable. Diving tackles like Kingā€™s and Nina are beaten out be the part of the leg that is closest to Elenaā€™s face (Thigh area). While other jumpins are beaten out be the lower part of the shin.

St.HP> St.HK (Whiff) > cr.MP xx MK. Rhino Horn/ HK Scratch wheel for 252/ 284 damage.

cr.HK is also a great trip guard against non divekick and diving tackle moves.

Ex rhino horn pass through property also works off of tag cancel so if youā€™re desperate you can use it for 2 meter and tag into a partner who has easy pandora combos for a victory. This can even be done midscreen although itā€™s a bit trickier.

My personal favorite is with Rolento as a partner.

No power gems

cr.lk > cr.lk > st.mp (2 hits) xx EX Rhino (262 damage)

Or

cr.MP xx EX Rhino (280 damage) TC

Rolento Jump d.mk towards corner on the second pogo j.MP/j.MK > cr.MP >st.lp > HK Patriot circlex3 Pandora

Elena st.mp (2 hits) xx Brave dance 423 damage.

685 - 703 damage total

If they roll towards the corner they have to guess which side Rolento hopped and on top of that they must know the mixup otherwise itā€™s up to Rolentoā€™s discretion to take advantage of the situation, especially if you condition them to roll towards the corner off of ex Ehino.

24

Interesting stuff about the kara throws. I hadnā€™t thought to try those with Elena, so I now have something new to lab. :smiley:

I donā€™t really agree with using St. HP as an anti-air for a couple of reasons:

  1. St. MP and St. LP are one-button, quick AAs which work against most things pretty reliably. Also, from St. MP you can cancel into a special move (such as MP Mallet Smash) for some counter hit combos and other set ups. The main problem is that St. HP is really slow in comparison to these moves.
  2. LK Scratch Wheel has upper body invincibility and will beat jump ins if itā€™s done early. Itā€™s the most reliable anti-air youā€™ve got.

I used the EX Rhino Horn setup on someone this weekend, and he got salty, saying I was using gimmicks and what not. To be fair it was a gimmick. :slight_smile:

However, I didnā€™t have Rolento. If your foe is already cornered, you can do a stupid setup where you dash forwards twice, then whiff B + HK, and it looks like youā€™ll end up in the corner, but you end up in front. If you change the timing a bit, you stay in the corner. Dirty setup.

25

The St.HP IMO is a far better option than st.lp and st.mp vs King and Ninaā€™s jHP and you get a nice fat combo off of it. Itā€™s worth the effort and itā€™s only slightly more difficult than Chun Liā€™s df+lk. Try it for a bit in training mode. Although I do agree st.lp/mp and scratch wheel are better in general and the only reason I tried St.HP was because the amount of Ninas and Kings Iā€™ve run into this weekendā€¦

Iā€™m just sad whenever I watch ssf4evo replays and Elena players are doing dumb stagnant play. The corner tech I found isnā€™t used. Optimal combos arenā€™t used. I donā€™t even see them trip guard with cr.HK. All I see is cr.mp x2 Rhino horn and far HKā€¦ T-T

And I know about that set up I wrote down a lot of them in the other thread. =)

Iā€™ll dedicate some time later to finding some safe jumps and other stuff later today after my copy of Dragonā€™s Crown arrives.

26

Well if thereā€™s one thing I try to do, itā€™s optimal combos. :slight_smile: My confirms still need some work sometimes, but in a buffer/punish situation I will always get 350+.

I need to lab far HP. Does it have invulnerability on Elenaā€™s leg or something?

27

No invulnerability from what I can tell but the hit box in the space between her head and leg is really good for some reason. I tried to use her st.mk cr.HP target combo but it doesnā€™t land.

I also tested some more post EX Rhino situations. Once I test out a few more things (such as safe jumps) Iā€™ll post them down here.

28

It seems like this must only be good for certain jump-ins. I tried it against Kenā€™s J. HK and Kazā€™s J. HK and had no luck unless I got a counter hit. Even then, given this moveā€™s huge startup, itā€™s very unlikely youā€™ll get a counter hit. Why not just go for St. MP or LP? They anti-air roughly the same range and are way faster.

Also, on counter hit LP, you can do St. LP, St. MK > D + HP, Cr. HK for 232 damage and a safe jump setup.

By the way, I started on a video walkthrough for Elena, but I think Iā€™m going to start over because I realized I completely forgot to mention that LPā€¦ So look for that in a few days.

29

Yea thatā€™s what I said lol itā€™s garbage, BUT against really dominant jump ins itā€™s very effective. Mostly as an anti King and Nina tool. To elaborate jumpins with a more vertical reach than horizontal reach it beats out. On every other jump in just use st.mp or st.lp. Iā€™ve gotten it to beat out a lot of ā€œsharperā€ jump ins in actual matches like Chun Liā€™s jHK. But itā€™s not a reactionary AA itā€™s more predictive.

The random stuff section is more food for thought than anything.
Moves that arenā€™t used as much or moves that can be used differently compared to how they are normally used.

For example against characters with a shorter launcher range I poke with max range cr.mk just because she pulls back. It makes them whiff, and can easily be followed up with st.lk.

Anyways Iā€™m almost done with Dragonā€™s Crown. After which I will post some useful info.

If youā€™re doing a video series though I might as well share what I have so far. I was trying to figure out a way to get a safe jump or a valid left right mixup off of ex rhino.

So far ex Rhino dash neutral jump jmp jHP tc works way often against a lot of characters. (Iā€™ll do the math later for safe jump set ups) But it always keeps her in the corner, but after finding the backward kara throw I was thinking of utilizing that to move her backwards and hit in front. And since her HK kara moves her forward it would be difficult to predict her adequately enough for a proper committed reversal.

:open_mouth: I also got a great idea for great Elena and Christie tech.

30

Has anyone ever pointed out that Elenaā€™s j. hp can cross up? I am certain the people who are really good at finding setups can put it to use. Right now for me I can not find a proper setup to net it every time sort of like Vegaā€™s cross up j. hp.

31

So hereā€™s some safe jumps off of EX rhino mix up and some others as well

4/5 frame safe jump (From what I can tell tested on Cammy and Sagat treat it as a 5 frame unless youā€™re Sako)

No Rolls Allowed
(Corner situations)
EX Rhino > dash forward neutral jump MK. Cammy DP is blocked.

In a frame perfect world ( I managed this twice out of at least 100 attempts).
They have to roll towards the corner. Elena lands in front of them and is at frame advantage with jMk and the most reverse their block again (holding back towards the corner). And throughout all of that they cannot use a 4 frame dp.

But in a more practical sense itā€™s the perfect 5 frame safe jump. They still must roll towards the corner and if they do Elena lands in front of them, but her jMK whiffs. If they donā€™t roll then they have to block in the right direction. I tried testing jMK towards the corner to see if this is autopilot, but the dummy recording is silly. Nj mk is more ambiguous though.

Midscreen Safe jumps
(Beaten by Rolls)

4 frame safe jump
BNB(example: cr.mp xx MK Rhino>cr.MP xx mk Rhino) Dash st.HK whiff neutral jump mk.
It works off of anything ending in MK Rhino, but be careful not cancel the last few frames of MK Rhinoā€™s recovery into dash as it ruins the entire set up.

Edit: This is height dependent so you have to gauge the height visually off of any other BnB. (ex lynx tail etc)

Anti DP in corner
(Beats DP mash due to how high she hits the dp but beaten by delayed dp or 3-4 frame dps)

EX Rhino st.lk (whiff) forward jump mk - Beaten by rolls

Will add more soon.

32

so when people were bitching about how strong Elenaā€™s EX RH is in corner oki, they were talking about those setups you have up there KitL19? I gotta take notes.

33

There are some other setups in this thread.

The b+HK is the tried and true set up I feel.

Also the corner anti roll setup you can just tap whichever direction is away from the corner really quickly and jump and youā€™d end up landing out of the corner. Pretty much it boils down to taking any action other than jumping moves you outside of the corner even st.lp (which moves you backwards) I havenā€™t tested throws, target combos, and crouching normals for some reason (I blame laziness). Anytime you notice your opponent block your mixup itā€™s up to you to change sides or continue. At itā€™s worst if you tap left itā€™s a fake cross up thatā€™s not a safe jump and the can roll out. So far for me I got it to be a 6 frame safe jump (still rollable). But I prefer to stick with a safe 4 frame safe jump until they start blocking it.

Also for some strange reason I couldnā€™t get tekken characters that I play to ever switch sides if I tag cancel off of the 2nd hit in the corner. No matter how many times I dashed. They always stayed in front and the opponent canā€™t roll (will test more though). I got Christie and Nina to cross up on the first hit however. In which case dashx4 neutral j.HP (Nina) j.MK (christie) are Uber ambiguous and I believe they are also safe jumps I just dunno how safe. And the Nina one works midscreen as well she crosses up in time so the opponent has to roll away from Nina.

But after playing a lot of matches I found out you can literally just hold up after dashing in the corner and itā€™s a 4 frame safe jump. I just have no idea how to replicate the one where if they roll towards the corner itā€™s still safe. I mustā€™ve delayed something. Tested before bed. Iā€™m 100% certain I didnā€™t do this before but Super jump towards the corner seems to be a Safe jump if they roll. Will test more later; too tired lol.

Iā€™ll probably post more when I get over dragonā€™s crown (100 hours in so far).

34

cr.mp forces you to switch sides. cr.lk doesnā€™t Maybe I can find some safe options after lynx tail next

35

So after testing some more forced roll set ups I came up with more practical ways to cause it with Elena.

So hereā€™s an example of some fun stuff that you can do. (that are actually practical since this time I tested on myself, a dummy holding forward, and a dummy holding back >_>)

MK Rhino ender> Dashx2 > HP Mallet (whiff) > Back+HK (hits meaty) > cr.mp works and lands meaty, blows up crouch techs, and at the very least itā€™s +1/or +2 on block. And if it lands meaty CH youā€™re +9 on hit. I even linked it into raw super for 400 damage xD. (At times like this I wish her cr.HP was special cancelable)

Iā€™m not sure how many active frames it has but it certainly doesnā€™t feel like a 1 frame link when I try to land cr.mp either that or itā€™s a lenient 1 frame link. And I managed to hit B+HK at 3 different heights so it should have at the very least 4 active frames maybe 5. If you hit it properly you should see the training dummyā€™s foot reel back (like the first hits of HK Lynx).

If they roll then they get hit by St.HK if they stand there they get hit by meaty B+HK, but the timing isnā€™t auto pilot there is a bit of delay after the hp mallet whiff, but everything must be done very quickly. But with a bit of practice you should be able to get it down to muscle memory.

If they donā€™t block and just leave the stick neutral and DP it beats your follow up options otherwise itā€™s safe from everything. Hereā€™s another surprising trait it hits High but itā€™s also considered low hitting. Meaning it beats a ton of low crush moves such as Dorya, but it also loses to move that are invincible to airborne attacks such as lawā€™s flip kick or Asukaā€™s F+LK. Asukaā€™s option requires strict timing however I either had to mash or turn on turbo to escape it with F+LK and counter lost 100% of the time. Jinā€™s Swaying Willow out beats it; it also beat out Kazuyaā€™s qcf+PP clean, sadly Ninaā€™s lk geyser didnā€™t work against it as well, and traded with Ryuā€™s LP SRK so itā€™s safe to assume that if itā€™s not invincible (or at least strike invulnerable) from at least frame 1-3 it is either wrecked or trades. And Elenaā€™s LK Scratch wheel is also beaten out because itā€™s High crush and the attack hits the lower body.

So hereā€™s a list of when you can do this forced roll set up, the conditions/spacing (if necessary), and the timing. Bear in mind that HP mallet will be the best to use in almost every scenerio as itā€™s faster and seems to recover a little quicker allowing you to land a meaty cr.MP.

-Lynx tail (all versions except EX) ā€“ Must be done very close to the opponent cancel the recovery animation with any mallet ā€” Timing is lenient .

  • Rhino Horn (All versions except EX) ā€“ Dash twice then mallet. Can even be done on max range RHs ā€” mallet must be done pretty quickly.

  • Mallet smash (HP) ā€“ Dash once and use any mallet ā€” Timing is beyond asap cancel the dash into HP mallet immediately and make sure to perfectly time the B+HK otherwise it whiffs or doesnā€™t hit perfectly meaty (still can hit somewhat meaty).

36

Yeah, HP Mallet is godlike for preventing/reversing rolls. And also, ending a combo with HP Mallet and then crossing over with another HP Mallet looks kinda funny. :smiley:

Also, ending a midscreen combo in MK Rhino and then immediately performing HK Rhino crosses over. Nothing too useful, but can influence rolls and if you dash up afterwards, you can start some pressure.

37

I donā€™t know if this has been mentioned but you also can set up a meaty off Elenaā€™s slide. You can do this from any distance- just do Elenaā€™s slide and then wait for the visual cue for the opponent to land on their back. As soon as they land on their back dash forward once then do Elenaā€™s round arch (back hk). The closer you are when doing the slide means the quicker you will have to forward dash. Although be warned that this set up is not an anti roll setup meaning the opponent can roll to escape out of this at any time.

38

There is a way to set up a meaty lp mallet smasher off of Elenaā€™s lynx tail. Off of any versions you just cancel the ending animation of the lynx tail and step back just slightly and do cr. lp (You will know if done right because lp mallet smasher only hit once and land close towards their ankles). After the cr. lp immediately do her lp mallet and it will hit the opponent whether crouching or standing. The best part is unlike the back hk meaty this one can beat out Lawā€™s flip kick and plus since the hit causes a stand you can connect her full bnb whether opponent is crouching or not. You can get around a good 342 damage off meaty lp mallet or continue more pressure with Elena( donā€™t really know frames but I think Elena is plus frames off lp mallet).