El Gordo Penguino AKA How to Fat Bird AKA The King Dedede Thread

Classic Fighting Games Super Smash Brothers Brawl
21

ahahahaha i did the same thing before, i was baffled but not in as much dismay as my friend was considering he ended up on the worse end of it

22

General Dedede Stuff, Move data, some strats, etc

Taken from Smashboards Dedede FAQ, credit goes to CO18. Figured I would post this here so you can easily read it and not deal with Smashboards crappy loading.

Attack Analysis.

*KO percentages are in red. All were done against Mario from the center of Final Destination.

Neutral A Ground Attacks:

  1. Hammer Swing
    Description : DDD swings his Hammer
    Avg Damage : 6%
    range: short
    knockback: little

This is the first attack of Dededes 3 hammer hits.
Not many normal uses besides racking up damamge when the opponent isnt expecting it.
However, a new technique the “Jab Fake” adds a lot more uses to this attack.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmbrandon
Most characters can do this. We know the spacies can’t. How it works:
Jab once of twice, and during the last few frames of the second jab, you can shield quickly (Press the button, the shield shouldn’t appear) and break it into either another jab, tilt, smash jump, grab or roll. People like Ike, and DeDeDe use this to it’s maximum potential.

As he said Dedede uses this to maximum potential and is going to be very useful for Dedede players in setting up combos, pulling off stronger attacks quciker, etc…

Rating: 4/5

  1. Hammer Swing Up
    Description : Dedede swings his hammer like a Golf Club at the opponent.
    Avg Damage : 5%
    range: short
    knockback: little

This is the second attack in Dedede’s 3 hit combo. Not a very useful move.
Rating: 2/5

  1. Hammer Spiral?
    Description: Dedede sticks out his hammer in a spiralry fashion.
    Avg Damage: 8%
    range: good
    knockback: average

This is the final move of Dedede’s 3 hit combo. It is a decent move that is pretty quick and has good range. However, you wil not be using it much. It is actually pretty good to get some damage because it takes the opponent a little while to get out of it if you hit them

Rating: 2.5/5

  1. Extended Hammer Spiral
    Description: Dedede leaves his hammer out as it spins.
    Avg Damage: 2%
    Range: good
    Knockback: Very little

If you hold A after using Dedede’s 3 hit combo the hammer stays extended.
If your opponent DI’s into you after using this move it will rack up alot of damage.
Other than this, its not very useful and any regular opponent will learn after the first time not to DI towards you.

Rating: 2.5/5

  1. Dash Attack
    Description: King Dedede runs and and slams onto the opponent
    Avg Damage: 13-16%
    KO : 100%
    Range: long
    Knockback : Good

This dash attack is Dedede’s faceplant from the old kirby games. Its a decent move as it is fast, has long range, and does decent damage. It is also good for tech chasing your opponet. However, you should use this move in moderation because it has pretty bad ending lag and leaves you vulnerable for awhile.

Rating: 2.5/5

Tilts

  1. Forward Tilt:
    Description: Dedede extends his rotating hammer into the opponent.
    Avg Damage: 12%
    KO: 280%
    Range :Long
    Knockback: Little

This is a very good move.
This move is excellent for long range poking and does a good amount of damage.
It is good as a defense maneuver and helps stop incredibly fast and aggressive players.
It is fairly quick and is a multiple hit series. You can use this move after using Dedede’s “Penguin Stomp” because of its range for some quick extra damage.

Rating: 4/5

  1. Down Tilt
    Description: Dedede lays down in his crouching position and kicks the opponent.
    Avg Damage: 10%
    KO: 135%
    Range: Good
    Knockback: Good

Dedede’s Down tilt is actually a good move. It has good range and is pretty fast. Since it is fast, it is good to use it every now and then since your opponent wont usually expect it and is decent at KOing once the opponent reaches the 135%+ range. It is good for racking up quick damamge as well and helps stop aggressive opponents.

Rating: 3.5/5

  1. Up Tilt
    Description: Dedede uses his head and hits the opponent upwards.
    Avg Damage: 12%
    KO: 105%
    Range: Average
    Knockback: Good

This move is very good. It is fast and has Good knockback. It is very good for juggling and can easily set dedede up for the use of his aerials particularly his B-air.
Definitley a good move for racking up some damage when the opponent is at low percents and setting up combos. It’s a great KO move and is great after spotdodging because of its low startup lag

Rating: 4.5/5

Aerials:

  1. Forward Aerial:
    Description: Dedede swings his hammer at the opponent in mid air.
    Avg Damage: 15-20%
    KO: 130%
    Range: Good
    Knockback: Good

Dedede’s forward Aerial is a pretty decent move. It has decent speed and is very strong.
The only problem with this move is that it has enough ending lag to make it punishable if you miss the opponent. Either way this move is quite strong and has a large hitbox and is a great aerial for KOing.

Rating: 3/5

  1. Up Aerial:
    Description: Dedede sticks his rotating hammer upward into the air.
    Avg Damage: 15 25%
    Range: Good
    Knockback: Good

( VS EDIT - This move can KO at higher percents, sorry I don’t have exact data :frowning: )

Dedede’s Up aerial is a rather good move. It has excellent range and good knockback.
It is a multiple hit attack and when the final hit(rotation of the hammer) hits the opponent that is when you see the good knockback. This move is pretty fast and racks up a good amount of damage, especially if you hit the opponent with all rotations. It has good priority and I would say Dedede’s second best aerial.

Rating: 4/5

  1. Down Aerial:
    Description: Dedede sticks his rotated hammer down in mid air.
    Avg Damage: 12-17%
    KO: 160%
    Range: Average
    Knockback: Below Average

This is a good aerial. It does a good amount of a damage, especially if all the rotations of the hammer strike the opponent. It has good range and priority as well.
Its startup lag isnt that bad at all.
This move also knocks the opponent upward. It is good for getting your opponent in the air to set up combos. This move is also useful for tech chasing if they tech toward you as long as you get the last hit in.

Rating: 4/5

  1. Backward Aerial:
    Description: Dedede kicks backward into the opponent.
    Avg Damage: 13%
    KO: 130%
    Range: Above Average
    Knockback: Average

Definitley Dedede’s best aerial. This move does a good amount of damage, has solid knockback, good range, high priority, and almost no lag. This move is very versatile and should be incorporated quite a bit into playing Dedede. It is a good for edge guarding and ledge spikin. For every one of Dedede’s jump you can execute this move twice which is pretty amazing. It is very similar to Mario’s b-air. It is great at keeping the opponent grounded because of it’s ability to attack twice in one jump.
Should definitley be used alot when shorthopping and can keep aggressive opponents at a distance as well as be aggressive itself.

Rating: 5/5

  1. Neutral Aerial:
    Description: King Dedede extends his arms and legs(looks similar to an air dodge)
    Avg Damage: 12%
    KO: 170%
    Range: Average
    Knocknack: Below Average

This move is ok… It is good for fastfalling on someone and following with a grab U-tilt or U-smash It is quick but it has only average range and little knockback.
The move is good for oppurtune moments where the opponent is in certain positions because of its speed. Other than setting up a couple of moves, it doesnt have that many uses.

Rating: 2.5/5

Smashes:

  1. Forward Smash:
    Description: Dedede swings his hammer over his head directly on the opponent.
    Avg Damage: 24%(uncharged) 33%(Fully charged)
    KO: 42% (Uncharged)
    KO: 17% (Charged)
    Range: Good
    Knockback: Amazing

King Dedede’s Forward Smash is the Strongest non Final Smash in the game.
As well as being incredibly strong it has Good range.
However, in order to get all that damage and power, this move must be sweetspotted, if you happen to hit with the sides of the hammer it will be much weaker.
In addition, this move is probably the slowest in the game.
It will have to take great timing to pull the move off, and even when you do, you will need it to hit directly in order for it to be good. However it can still miss the opponent completely and as long as they are within one body length away and still do 5% damage with good knockback.
Its starting and ending lag is so great that the opponent has to be either perfectly comboed/timed against or either incredibly dumb for this move to hit with them.
And because of its ending lag, with the small chance that you do hit them, if you miss you will surely be punished. However, you still cannot neglect the fact, that most of the time when you land it, they will die.

Rating: 2.5/5

  1. Up Smash:
    Description: Dedede swings his hammer upward across his body.
    Avg Damage: 14%(uncharged) 21%(fully charged)
    KO: 110% (Uncharged)
    KO: 75% (Charged)
    Range: Good
    Knockback: Good

Pretty Useful Smash. It has decent speed, does ok damage, and has good knockback.
It is pretty useful as a finishing combo and when timed right has good priority.

Rating: 3.5/5

  1. Down Smash:
    Description: Dedede swipes his hammer on the ground in front of then behind him
    Avg Damage:14%(uncharged) 21%(charged)
    KO: 115% (Uncharged)
    KO: 75% (Charged)
    Range: Good
    Knockback: Good

Fairly good move as well.
It has pretty good range and knockback. The knockback of this move is vertical, so it is good for getting the opponent in the air to set up for Dedede’s aerials.

Rating: 3/5

Grabs

  1. Standing Grab
    Description: Dedede grabs his opponent with one hand.
    Avg damage: Dependant on headbutts and Throw
    Range: Amazing
    Knockback: Depends on throw

Dedede’s grab game is simply amazing. His grab range is incredible, possibly the best in the game. He has an extremely good chain grab which I will get more into later in the down grab analysis. And the rest are very powerful

Overall Grab Rating: 5/5

  1. A attack in grab(Headbutting)
    Description: King dedede headbutts the opponent while having them in his grip
    Avg Damage: 3%

This is only good for adding a little more damage to the opponent when you grab them.
However be careful because the opponent can break out of this hold.
You should only use this when the opponent is at high percentages typically.

Rating: N/A

  1. Forward Throw:
    Description: King Dedede whacks the opponent out of his hand with his hammer
    Avg Damage: 13%
    Knockback: Good

King Dedede’s Forward throw is pretty good combared to most others. After using his incredible grab range, you simply just press forward on the control stick to execute this.
It does a good deal of damage as a throw and has good knockback as well.

Rating: 4/5

  1. Backward Throw:
    Description: King Dedede turns around and whacks the opponent out of his hand with his hammer
    Avg Damage: 16%
    Knockback: Good

Dedede’s back throw is very similar to his forward throw. It is slightly more powerful than it making it one of the strongest grabs in the game and also has good knockback. Definitley good for getting people off the edge, so you can edgeguard.

Rating: 4.5/5

  1. Up Throw
    Description: Dedede grabs the opponent and hits him up with two hands
    Avg Damage: 9%
    Knockback: Good

Dedede’ Up throw is probably his worst throw. Its not bad by any means but its not as useful as the others. It only does 9% damage and throws the opponent really high. You can pull off some aerials after using this but alot of the time they can just DI away.

Rating: 2.5 .5

  1. Down Throw
    Description: Dedede grabs the opponent and sits on them.
    Avg Damage: 8%
    Knockback: Below Average

Dedede’s Down throw can result in an amazing chain grab if done properly.
In order for it to be extremely useful you must use a “Dashing Shield Grab”

Originally Posted by Dmbrandon
Like jump canceling, if you tap the shield, and grab, the throw makes your character move faster, and the range is increased. EXTREMELY USEFUL.
If yo do not use the dashing shield grab, your opponents will more easily escape the chain grab. The opponent is able to roll either towards or away from Dedede when he uses this move. In order to be quick on the gun when your opponent rolls away from you, you must use the dashing shield grab.

Here is a little guide made by I.T.P that demonstrates the mechanics of the chaingrab.

DDD grabs Opponent
=================OD=========

DDD throws opponent, throw advances you by a bit.
============O===D===========

and now, when you start chasing, it’s either

opponent rolls towards DDD and gets grabbed.
===============OD===========

opponent stays and gets dashing shield grabbed
============OD==============

opponent rolls backwards and gets dashing shield grabbed from a prolonged dash
========OD==================

You pretty much have to be really focused because you must guess exactly where the opponent is rolling to make the chain grab succesful, but as you get use to it, it should become much easier resulting in an incredible chaingrab.

Rating: 5/5

B-Moves:

  1. Side B(Waddle dee Toss)
    Description: Dedede pulls out one of his minions and launches it at the enemy.
    Avg Damage: 5%(Waddle Dee) 7%(Waddle doo) 23%(Gordo)
    Knockback: Little(WDEE) Little(WDOO) Excellent(Gordo)

King Dedede’s waddle dee toss is a very useful move.
The move comes out very fast making it spammable. The Wdees and Wdoos do
enough damage for what they’re worth. Occasionally Gordos come out too, which are farrr stronger and have much better knockback than the “Waddles”. The Gordos also come out faster and go farther than the Waddles as well.
After being thrown Wdees and Wdoos walk around the stage. Wdees can jump on people and if they walk off the edge they can hit an opponent trying to recover. Wdoos shoot a spray of electricity at the opponent when they come near. Dedede can pickup the Wdees and Wdoos and throw them back at the opponent(instantly happens). Dedede can also hit the wdees and wdoos into opponents.
Also due to attacks now diminishing after being spammed, you can use your wdees/wdoos that are on the ground and attack them, and get the damage and knockback up for other previously spammed attacks.
The wdees and wdoos can be sucked up but there is no use for this because they are automatically swalloed. Overall this move is excellent and will be a major focal point of Dedede’s game.

Rating: 5/5

  1. Down B(Jet Hammer)
    Description: Dedede pulls out his mechanized hammer and swings it at the opponent.
    Avg Damage: 30%(Fully charged on ground) 16%(uncharged) 28%(fully charged in air)
    Knockback: Amazing

The Jet Hammer is a sort of complex move of Dedede’s.
Its start up lag is pretty bad, but its ending lag is not.
Its range is pretty good and its knockback is amazing.
When fully charged this move is a killer. However, you lose about 2% damage every second.
This move should be very useful for edgeguarding as well.
Dedede can jump with this move charged and release it in mid air.
Dedede can also can reverse this attack in mid air, meaning you can face one direction, quickly turn your direction in mid air and release the hammer quickly.
Overall its not really useful, maybe something will be found out later.

Rating: 1.5/5

  1. Up + B(Super Dedede Jump)
    Description: Dedede launches into the sky and lands with great force.
    Avg Damage: 12%
    Knockback: Average

The Super Dedede Jump is a very interesting move. Its flight path is totally dependant on your momentum. If you are standing it will fly straight up and you have no control. If you are running then the jump will move a great ways horizontally.
You can control which direction you will go however before you use it.
This move is different than other Up + B’s beacause it doesnt grab on to ledges by itself.
Instead you must use the “SDJC” and cancel the move by either pressing down on the control stick or Down + B. This move will grab onto the ledge and even “auto sweetspot” onto it. This move also spikes. If the opponent is edgehogging and their invincibilty frames are up, DO NOT Cancel this, otherwise you will fall, but instead if you dont cancel it, you will spike them and can still manage to grab on to the ledge.
Other than this, its not very useful for attacking but is good for recovery.

Rating: 3.5/5

  1. Standard B(Inhale)
    Description: Dedede sucks the opponent into his belly.
    Avg Damage: 10%
    Knockback: Average

This is Dedede’s inhale move, which is virtually the same as kirby’s.
You press B and Dedede sucks the opponent into his belly and in order to do damage you spit them back out.
A good use for this move however, is Dedede’s “Regicide”.
Basically you suck up the opponent and jump off a cliff with them in your belly.
If this move is used when both opponents are on their last stock, it will result in a Sudden death. In the Sudden death however, if this move is used Dedede is the winner.
Here is a short video made by Gon showing this:
[media=youtube]uQYDIG3vbLA[/media]
the move can also be used as a “star shot”. Using your inhaled opponent as a projectile.
The Star Shot’s damage is directly related to the weight of the character being shot.
This is the Same for both Dedede and Kirby.

This chart made by T!mmy shows the different damages.

Originally Posted by T!mmy
Very Heavy (18%)
(18%) Bowser (Koopa)
(18%) Dedede, King
(18%) Donkey Kong

Heavy (17%)
(17%) Charizard
(17%) Ganondorf
(17%) Snake
(17%) Samus

Medium-Heavy (16%)
(16%) Captain Falcon
(16%) Ike
(16%) Link
(16%) R.O.B.
(16%) Wario
(16%) Wolf
(16%) Yoshi

Medium (15%)
(15%) Lucario
(15%) Luigi
(15%) Mario
(15%) Ivysaur
(15%) Sonic

Medium-Light (14%)
(14%) Diddy Kong
(14%) Ice Climber
(14%) Lucas
(14%) Toon Link
(14%) Ness
(14%) Peach
(14%) Pit

Light-Weight (13%)
(13%) Marth
(13%) Olimar
(13%) Sheik
(13%) Zelda

Very Light-Weight (12%)
(12%) Falco
(12%) Fox
(12%) Kirby
(12%) Meta Knight
(12%) Pikachu
(12%) Squirtle
(12%) Zero Suit Samus

Feather-Weight (11% or less)
(11%) Mr. Game & Watch
( 9% ) Jigglypuff (Purin)

Rating: 3/5

Strategies

This section is for useful strategies involving King Dedede.

Recovery

As you should know by now. King Dedede is a beast when it comes to recovering.

However, regardless of how good his recovery is you don’t want to have to put yourself in the situation.
That’s why it is important to DI.
Always try to DI your opponent’s attacks to reduce the chance of being Knocked Out.
DIing is very useful but it can only do so much, this is when King Dedede’s recovery scheme comes into place.

It is very simple.

Use King Dedede’s multiple jumps to recover as much horizontal and vertical distance as you can.
If that doesn’t get the job done then you must use the Super Dedede jump.
After using King Dedede’s multiple jumps use his up + b.
King Dedede’s Up + B doesnt grab onto the ledge so you must cancel the jump near the ledge by either pressing Down on the control stick or Down B.
When near the ledge this move will automatically “sweetspot” the ledge and grab on.

Recovering diminished attacks.

As talked about earlier, spamming certain moves decrease their damage and knockback.
In order to regain their damage and knockback you must succesfully hit your opponent with other moves thus making you use more of the character’s attacks and not relying on a few.
An advantage that Dedede has is his Wdees and Wdoos. If there are Wdees/Wdoos walking on the ground, you can attack them and still achieve the same results as if you were attacking your opponent.
Of course this shouldn’t be used unless your opponent is far away from you or has just been KOed but it is useful none the lesss.

Edgeguarding.

Couple of Edgeguarding techniques for Dedede.
More will be added soon.

B-Air’s

King Dedede’s Bair is very useful for edgeguarding. It has incredible speed and priority and is very versatile. You can hit the opponent anywhere they may be off the stage with Dedede’s Bairs. Ledge Hopped Bairs can hit any opponents near the stage or below it and it is extremely difficul for them to avoid.

Opponent’s above the stage can easily be hit by simply jumping off and hitting them with Bairs.

If the opponent is at a high %, majority of the time this move will kill them which just adds to its usefulness.
If not, due to Dedede’s great recovery you can pull this move off 2- 3 times without worrying about not making it back to the stage.
If the opponent also tries to recover directly under the edge, just simply B-air them into the wall so they cant.
Overall this move is a great Edgeguarding technique and should be used often when the opponent is off the stage.

Combos

Here are just some general combos without a very indepth report(will come later)

"Penguin Stomping"
D-Air -> U-Air
Fastfall N-air -> U-tilt
Fastfall N-air-> U-tilt-> U-tilt -> U-tilt -> U- air (Must be done with opponent at very low percentage.)
D-Air -> Back Air
D-Air -> U-Tilt

Swallowcide

What you have to do is use Dedede’s Neutral B move(Inhale) and with the opponent in your stomach fall off the stage. There are a few ways to use this succesfully…

  1. The opponent is off the stage and quite far and you jump off the stage to inhale them.

  2. The opponent is below the stage and you either jump down or ledgehop and inhale your opponent.

  3. The opponent is near the stage and with a running start you jump off, using your momentum to carry you.

  4. The opponent is on the stage after knocking you off, trying to edgeguard you. On your way onto the stage you can sometimes suck them up and fall.

  5. The opponent has knocked you off the stage and as you are trying to recover they jump up to finish you off, you can inhale them then and fall.
    The majority of the time you should use this technique if you currently have alot more damage then your opponent of if your opponent is at their last stock.
    If both you and your opponent are on your last stocks, it will result in a sudden death. If you use this in a Sudden death. You win.

Ledge Spiking

Ledge spiking is basically when you hit your opponent that is at at sort of high percent into the side of the stage, they crash and fall straight down and it is nearly impossible to recover.

It’s not as risky to Ledge Spike with Dedede as it is with other characters because of his multiple jumps and good move for doing so.

Dedede’s B-air is the most useful means for ledgespiking because of its great range, priority, in addition to its good knockback.
Because of Dedede’s great recovery and multiple jumps, your opponent will often be scrambling harder to get to the edge then you are and wont be as willing to engange in all out off the stage wars.

Regardless of your Recovery, it is still quite risky to ledgespike so you shouldnt neccesarily try to force it. Just wait for the oppurtune moments where both you are your opponent are fighting to get back on the ledge/stage.

23

Chain Grabbing

Taken from Smashboards Chain Grab FAQ, credit goes to Mr. C. Figured I would post this here so you can easily read it and not deal with Smashboards crappy loading.

Simple list for those who want to know explaining what characters DDD can and cannot CG. Also, shows and explains which characters DDD can Infinite.

Orange: Capable of being Infinite grabbed.
Blue: Capable of being Chain grabbed and Infinite grabbed.
Green: Capable of being Chain grabbed.
Red: Cannot be Chain grabbed.

Everyone in the Orange, Blue, and Green list can be Infinite wall grabbed.

  • Luigi cannot be chain grabbed normally due to him sliding so far, in order for him to be “chain grabbed” you must perform the Infinite or Infinite wall grab. That is why he is on both the orange and red list.

**Chain grab: **Throwing the opponent in a given direction to catch them before their character has time to react. In King Dedede’s case this is with Dthrow. Grab your opponent Dthrow, and instantly chase him, some characters require you to Shield Cancel Grab (SCG) in order for another grab to connect.

Infinite wall grab: All characters that can be Chain grabbed, including Luigi can be Infinite grabbed when up against a wall.

Infinite grab: After your first Dthrow there are certain frames where you are allowed to re grab some characters without moving. This can go on as long as you do not mess up, simply Infinite until the person is high enough to die from a Bthrow. So far the only characters that can be Infinite grabbed are Luigi, Mario, Samus, Bowser, and Donkey Kong.

Note: When DDD Dthrows Samus, Luigi, or Mario the Infinite grab suffers from stale move-negation, in order to keep up the Infinite you must reset your stale moves with grab jabs. This really only becomes an Infinite at higher percents (50%+) or your opponent is capable of breaking your grab.

Note: When you are trying to “Infinite” Bowser you are forced to take a little step forward in order for the grab to connect. Technically this isn’t an Infinite compared to the other characters but on certain levels you can easily get 75-150% easily, before you eventually run out of stage.

Vayseth was kind enough to make a demonstrational video for Infinite grabbing, he also has another in-depth guide for Chain grabbing.

Demonstrational video:
[media=youtube]23UyrHXK36A[/media]

In-depth guide:
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=2932

  • Video and allisbrawl guide credit goes to Vayseth, thanks. <3

Infinite only:
Luigi

Both CG and Infinite grab:
Mario
Samus
Bowser
DK

Chain grab only:
Lucas
Pit
Ice Climbers
Diddy Kong
Ganondorf
Ness
Toon Link
Ivysaur
Ike
Captain Falcon
King Dedede
Snake
Marth
Peach
Wario
Sonic
Yoshi
R.O.B
Lucario
Wolf
Link
Charizard

Cannot be Chain grabbed:
Fox
Jiggly Puff
Pikachu
Olimar
Zelda
Mr. Game & Watch
Sheik
Kirby
Squirtle
Meta Knight
Falco
Luigi
ZSS

Simple follow ups:

  • After a Dthrow, Ftilt will connect vs almost every character.
  • When your opponent is use to you Chain grabbing, Dthrow Fsmash/Dash attack will sometimes catch your opponent off guard giving you a low % kill.
  • When playing a character that cannot be Chain grabbed, simply tech chase and regrab/tilt/smash attack/aerial.
  • When Dthrowing off the edge you pretty much get a free Bair/Fair.

Stuff from Vayseth’s Chain Grab guide on allisbrawl.com.

Key points:

  1. The chain grab doesn’t work on everyone.
  2. The chain grab can be comboed into walls infinitely on all those who don’t fall after the down throw.
  3. Some characters can get grabbed infinitely without walls.
  4. Some characters can get grabbed inescapably for only a short period of time.
  5. When chain throwing you MUST use shield cancel grabs. Having a dash grab whiff during a chain throw is a sure-fire way to get punished.
  6. After any down throw you can link a forward tilt on everyone in the cast except Luigi* which is an unavoidable natural combo.
  7. Changing your X button to throw (who uses it to jump?) and using that rather than Z to perform your wall or no wall infinites makes life far easier and the timing becomes naturally easier (at least for me).

Chain throw infinite specifics:

With wall infinite:

After a down throw one of 3 things happen: they fall on the ground and can tech away and hit by forward tilt after, they stay standing and move a decent distance away, they stay standing and don’t move very far at all. For all of the people who stay standing, they can get grabbed infinitely on any wall, which makes stages with any walls really nice counterpicks for D3. Usually the best way to kill someone out of this infinite is a up tilt since it is quick enough to strike during the opponent’s recovery and has nice knockback, especially at over 150%, making it an infinite combo.

Without Wall Infinite:

NOTE: DO NOT TEST THESE IN PRACTICE MODE. PRACTICE MODE HAS NO MOVE DECAY AND THEREFORE IS INACCURATE. TEST ONLY IN BRAWL TIMED MATCHES SET TO INFINITE. LIKE PRACTICE MODE, BUT TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE DECAY.

DK and Bowser are so big and move so very slightly after the down throw that D3 can catch them while in recovery frames after the throw and just throw again, over and over. The timing is weird but not too hard to master after an hour tops. Usually with Bowser I tilt the stick slightly forward to ensure I get the next grab. If you don’t do it, I’ve noticed that the follow up throws tend to whiff. To follow up I usually do a forward or back throw (depending on where I am on the level) after doing a lot of damage. up tilt connects after sometimes, but I usually like to be safe and just do all throws.

Strange Infinite-like chain throw:

This also works on Samus, Mario, and Luigi. However, I’ve noticed that as the throw gets stale (used more than 5 times) these 3 character move just out of D3’s throwing range. Now, people with experience with the infinite, please let me know if the timing changes and I just can’t get it, but I’ve been only able to successfully link 5 throws together on each of these characters regardless of what percent those characters are at, if D3’s throws are not staled. I tested this at all kinds of different percents and even tried doing D3’s neutral A combo to see if I could do more throws after what I would assume to be making the throw not stale again. And, to my surprise, no matter what percentage they were at, I always got exactly 5 throws linked together. After linking a forward tilt after, it did approximately 44% dmg to each character, not bad for a single grab combo. I’m still testing this out but really, I think that’s all that needs to be done.

UPDATE: These three are now official infinites, just only starting at around 50%, depending on how good the person is at breaking throws. To circumvent the move decay done to the down throw, you need to hit them once or twice with an A while grabbing. Which is why it is crucial it is done at high percents. At low percents, people will simply break out. Ankoku brought it to my attention that the move decay list is only 9 moves deep. So, to prevent the move decay, you need to jab a couple times inbetween each down throw. It makes it harder to infinite these three, but at least we have some grasp on an official infinite with them now. Get them to high percents and then just forward throw them. They can do very little to get out of it.

Here’s a video of it working on Samus:
[media=youtube]vzC8eMCi3As[/media]

Be sure to note that the person in the video is in training mode, so the damage decay isn’t in effect so the Samus can be thrown without being punched inbetween. I’ll try to make a video of my own ASAP.

[media=youtube]23UyrHXK36A[/media]

There’s a video faq for you all made and narrated by me so you all can hopefully get a good idea of what I’m talking about.

There’s a video of it in action in tournament. There’s actually quite a bit of funny stuff in that one icon_xd

That’s all for now. If anyone has any questions or comments please post!

D3 BEST IN DA GAME.

  • Luigi. Luigi falls in a strange way after the down throw that leaves him safe from a forward tilt follow up and also allows him to recover before D3 can complete another chain throw. Even if D3 DOES get another throw in, the distance they move is quite a lot, making the chain throw not as effective. Luckily for us, he can at least be grabbed 5 times in a row before we have to worry about it.

**Ice Climbers. While the Iceclimbers can be chain grabbed, it’s highly useless because if you accidentally grab Nana, your only choice is to forward throw IMMEDIATELY before Popo punishes you for grabbing. Nana will also punish if you hold Popo for too long, but that’s not as big a deal. The interesting thing is, if you do the exact timing that is required for the without wall infinite chain throw, you can down throw Popo and then grab Nana right after before she follows Popo. With this, you can successfully separate the two for a very short while if you then back throw Nana while Popo is still in recovery. If you do this by the edge, Nana will also have a tough time getting back, while you distract Popo with something else. At higher percents, this is an effective way of splitting the Ice Climbers apart. However, Nana can still take inputs from the player while Popo is being held. Your best best is to do it FAST, before your opponent has a chance to stop the throws.

24

Here an in depth look at Dedede’s throws:

25

Hey Vicious I wanted to ask you how my dedede was so here are a few vids…Criticism is appreciated!

[media=youtube]_8KGLvkLjOI[/media]

[media=youtube]NMySp3_gLkA[/media]

[media=youtube]r0hMSjf5jec[/media]

[media=youtube]V5Ukw0rE0H8[/media]

26

Remember, I am no authority, plus I quit the game like every day, multiple times.

You played very well, just don’t use dash attack that much, it’s awkward and has huge recovery.

It’s good for a surprise now and then, but it’s nothing worth spamming.

Do more ftilts and utilts, other then that, I can’t think of anything to add. You probably play him better than me. I liked how you were spot dodging and going into the chain throw and it was nice when you kept edge hogging while throwing in fairs in the last vid.

When you get up into the high 100’s/200’s don’t be afraid to fuck it and go for a Swallowcide. If your opponent knows you aren’t afraid to use inhale liberally they will tend to stand in the middle of the stage and you can just chill on the edge at the perfect f tilt range while throwing waddles.

When you are coming back from the edge and just using normal jumps, you can do an inhale while coming off your last jump and have the momentum carry you forward so when you get on the edge you will suck them in if they are sitting there waiting for you.

This is also the basics of Swallowciding, once you get them in your mouth in mid air press down immediately and you will go down fast as hell.

Also, learn to do forward Bairs, when you knock them off Fair is good, but Bair is was better. For every jump when chasing someone off the ledge you can throw out 2 bairs or 1 fair.

Try not to do short hop fairs, they suck, the hammer never connects. SH Bairs are great though.

But yeah, you probably play him better then me. :wgrin:

27

eh he’s your main so I figured I’d ask ya. I can’t dededecide these guys too often cause they already know I’ll do it if i get the chance. Thanks for all the tips! =D I’ll try to incorporate them into my game the best I can.

28

It’s okay, I am just angry, like all the time lately.

The fact that they know you are going to dededecide them make them play differently which you can use to your advantage. I noticed how the Lucario almost always tried to stay in the center of the stage when he fought you.

That means you are IN HIS HEAD. YES.

HI FIVE FOR MIND GAMES. 0/

No one plays Dedede on here anyway. Everyone is playing Dat Snake, and rightfully so, he is god damn awesome.

I usually get all of my Swallowcides when people try to attack me when I’m recovering. That is the only real time in serious play you can get them safely, but it’s very easy.

Remember you can usually up tilt twice and do a uair on many characters for big damage.

You were doing that using the up throw, which I am going to steal. I don’t throw nearly enough.

29

Sonichuman your Dedede looks very comparable to mine.

tips though, DO NOT BE AFRAID TO CHASE THOSE FUCKERS OFF THE STAGE. I started to edge-grab and follow cheeky bastards like Star Wolf off the level and I’m working on my Bair WOP (wall of pain)

Dedede has amazing recovery so it’s pretty safe to go into the danger zone. The thing is you have to manage which direction you’re facing so you don’t accidentally Fair when you wanna Bair. My advice, go to practice mode and get used to D3’s recovery, just see how low you can get off the level with back-airs before you can’t get back on the stage with Up+b

[media=youtube]97pLNdNnOEk&fmt=18[/media] <- this is a good example of punishing characters with poor recovery

Yesterday I crushed my poor friend playing as snake because his recovery start-up is so bad. I basically just did Fair->Fair->Fair-KO just because he was trying up+b over and over.

30

I need some tips for fighting Zelda. Bitch is too meaty. :frowning:

31

That video was hot fire! I wouldn’t mind practicing a lil more with him so he can be my more slid go to guy when the hedgehog can’t get the job done. Unfortunately I’m probably gonna have to wait on practicing on real people for awhile since it seems the people who i’ve been playing the game with are bashing the hell out of it (something that I’ve grown quite tired of and think I shouldn’t even bother playing the game period around them) and I need a better modem to play online so when everyone plays me it won’t be a lag fest.

32

Hey all. I decided to pick up DDD and have been playing him for the past few days and so far, I’m enjoying it. I can see why he’s a a great character and he’s one of those characters that you actually have to learn how to use properly.

I have a question about chain throwing. If done properly, is it unescapable on the characters it can be used on? I’ve been trying it against level 9 computers but I can never seem to keep it going but on lower levels I seem to do it just fine so I imagine I’m either messing up on my timing or that an opponent can escape it.

33

There is a whole post about chain throwing somewhere up there. Just go up a couple posts.

34

King Dedede is the MAN :slight_smile: just mained him awhile ago (as my 2nd char, snake is #1). One combo I like to do (not a true combo cause they can escape), every now and then to catch your opponents offguard is…

A, A, slight pause, Dtilt, Utilt - at low/mid percentages & depending on the weight of the char

If anything, your opponent can escape after the 2nd A. Not always though, a good portion of the time they expect your third A (extended drill). when they don’t see that coming, and see something else (Dtilt), it makes them pause a bit and confuses them. So in training-mode, practice your Dtilt and time it so come right when it possibly can. this hits the opponent just a bit up, perfectly for your Utilt to connect. :smokin:

35

That Romeo vid is actually what made me main D3 :rofl:

Sonichuman I watched the last match there. Not bad, the advice the others have given is good stuff. I would also like to add that you might want to start using the down smash and the up tilt more. Both are good counters for heavy rollers (when they end up behind you - down smash; when they end up inside your character, Utilt their ass). Of course, stick to the grab game when they are in front.

Put a muzzle on that dash attack - I know that for me it comes out accidentally sometimes when I try to Ftilt, but with practice that will stop. I DID find that the dash attack works wonders against people who like to spot dodge your approach, since its just delayed enough to catch the end of the dodge. Plus its really humiliating to get KO’d by that move :rofl:

Another thing you could work on is short hop Bair (which I didn’t see you abuse). The priority is ridiculous, so you can do things like spam the crap out of it until they learn to spot dodge or block it (which you’ll notice, will start to get you in trouble) then switch up to things like an empty fastfall into a grab (if they like to spot dodge) or downsmash (if they like to roll). Mixing that up will really mess with their head.

Criticism aside, what I notice you do really well is spot dodge into counter, chain grab, and you make great use of the Ftilt and Dtilt. I got a few more D3 tips, but I’ll post them later.

36

thanks!!! I actually do try to use his bair a lot now especially for people who like to dodge all the time…empty jumping on the olimar player doesn’t quite work out most of the time since if he does his grab the pikmin are for the most part invincible…not to mention the fact that Olimar’s up smash is bitch if you get hit by it by the right pikmin. Down air does beat it out…but olimar can punish it on hit unless you’re short hopping it and now doing it as you come down and even then you could still get punished for it sometimes.

Is olimar a hard match for dedede anyway? Forward tilt can stop the pikmin spam some times and doing his up tilt will automatically get them all off you but then sometimes I get clocked when trying to get them off. Then when i try to ignore the fact they’re on me I’ve suddenly gone from 0 to 50% damage.

37

I notice in the Romeo vid, he does a lot of really short hop->fairs while grabbing the ledge against edgeguarding enemies. How exactly is that done?

38

-rushes off to try this-

39

Hold away from the edge, hit jump, cstick away from the edge. Dedede can change direction with each aerial jump, so in this case you hold away from the edge to drop, then since you’re holding it, when you press jump you turn around. This can also be used to hit enemies on the stage with Bair. Same inputs except cstick towards stage. It’s really nice.

DDD can Ftilt Oli all day. It outranges or cancels everything he has. Sit back and toss some WDees and make him approach you. He can toss pikmin at you but you can block them with jabs, Ftilt, Bair. I think you can swallow them too if you want to be a dick about it.

40

Thanks. I’ve actually been using down to let go of the edge, and pressing jump at the same time, then swinging the stick forward for a fair. I’ll try this stuff out next chance I get.

I also like how vs. Olimar, his u-tilt knocks all Pikmin off of you. I always thought that matchup would be a pain in the ass, but it doesn’t seem all that bad.

Also, I was asking for vs. Zelda strats earlier, but I think I’ve got that matchup a little bit better. I’ve been air dodging din’s fire, approaching with f-tilt, and using up/down smash to punish rolling behind, u-tilt to punish rolling into me, and a fair bit of grab->down throw->tech chase for mixup. Vs. her up smash, I’ve been using well timed hop -> dairs to punish, and the matchup doesn’t seem as dumb anymore.