I’ve seen Doom placed 3rd on a lot of teams so I thought it would be a good idea for a matchup thread specifically focusing on Doom vs other common anchor characters in that 1v1 situation at the end of a match. Aside from Doom himself, the most common anchors in my experience playing and watching are
Hawkeye
Wesker
Sentinel
So maybe we could discuss strategies for that end of game situation against these (and other) characters for those of use playing X/X/Doom teams.
I’m gonna be honest, I’m really just looking for help against Hawkeye in this situation. I don’t have any problem against Sentinal. I can handle Wesker because I have dealt with that a lot. I just don’t know how Doom can beat Hawkeye 1v1 in the late game.
if you are trying to get in, then u are going to have one hell of a time. I suggest being patient and beating him in a projectile war. (which u can do) hawkeye can’t hit u from a diagonal angle unless he uses bar for gimlet. block, and retaliate.
Sounds like a decent plan and all, but–and this could just be me not being a good Doom player–I don’t really think Doom can win a projectile war with Hawkeye. Hawkeye covers the screen exceptionally well, including the diagonal part. (Hold st :h: and aim up). Most of Clint’s arrows have more durability than Doom’s attacks, they also come out faster, too. And Gimlet is something that a good Hawkeye will only use if he’s punishing something. I’ve been in Doom vs Hawkeye anchor fights a lot, and unless it comes to me getting a lucky grab, Hawkeye wins every time so long as it’s a projectile war.
I dont see how doom loses zoning aside from gimlet. if ur opponent shoots triple arrow on the ground,then block and throw your own beam. It will beat out the startup of his next projectile. he can kump but from jump he has no diagonal option to hit u outside of gimlet
u can always just jump or duck to avoid most of his arrow attacks. when he has bar, however, the zoning game becomes very difficult as u know that he can gimlet anytime
The first thing Hawkeye players learn is to never start zoning with a grounded triple arrow. They often make it safe by doing jumping triple arrows (the arrows come out fast in the air, and since he’s falling, the arrows come out one by one, essentially making a wall of arrows at normal jump height, and when they reach the ground, the recovery is practically instant, allowing him to follow up with another arrow, usually just a st:h: and from there they can do any other arrow special they choose, and start the process over again. Jumping, ducking, and avoiding this is extremely hard to do when Doom is the last one standing, because there’s always something on the screen, and the little gaps in between are incredibly hard to do anything with, and if he has just one bar, any attempt at a punish results in a free Gimlet. If you super jump, you’ll get shot down with any of Hawkeye’s dragon punch arrows, and if you keep trying and eventually manage to super jump in range, Hawkeye can effectively slide under you and go to the other side of the screen. Keep in mind, you’re taking chip damage all along the way.
its a hard fight for sure. but its not impossible. if he is doing air triple arrow, u can simply duck under to avoid it? I’ve never been hit by that when I’ve been willing to accept that it comes out. its a tough fight no doubt, but u can quickly achieve incremental life advantages by just being patient with your projectile usage. I hate hawkeye the most though because u cannot be aggresive at all against him. his arrows punish the recovery of all Doom’s dashes. There is a hawkeye in my region that I believe is pretty good. I’ll see if I can get some games up against him and if the situation arises i’ll show you what I do.
you have videos of the hawkeyes u play against?
I don’t know right off the bat if you can duck triple arrows (probably can, but I’m having a mind block, so I’ll get back to you on that). Patience is really your only choice against Hawkeye, and not only do you gotta be on your game with defense. As far as anchors go, Hawkeye seems to have all the cards in his favor.
This isn’t the best example of what I’m talking about, but here’s a quick somethin’ of me playin’ against the guy in that situation at 1:41:47, and as you can plainly see, being out-zoned caused me to get desperate, and I do some extremely sloppy stuff.
Spoiler
[media=youtube]F5zDDGHrg0o[/media]
The strategy in Marvel is you must take to the air against anyone who beats your projectile game from the ground. There are very few characters that Doom can out projectile from the ground. Meaning you must go to the air. Playing Doom as anchor for most of Vanilla I learned this early on.
The idea is to super jump up and throw air photon shots and then air dash in. The opponent will sometimes pushblock your photon shots but this is a lot better than doing some gun war on the ground that Doom (especially not anchor Doom) is designed to do. Anchor Doom is all rushdown. You wanna get in, dash cancel the shit out of them and then cross them up, air dash M high/low/cross or back/forward throw them into TOD combo.
im probaly ok with doom but ill give you my thoughts on the matchups.
vs hawkeye? truthfully i think this matchups favors on hawkeye’s side. if i had to rate it its like 5.5-5 or 6-4
why i think this? hawkeye arrows has way less startup frames then any of doom projectiles. i know i shot one of doom plasma beat and the arrow went through it for a couple of frames before it went away. hawkeye piercing bolt i think beats doom projectiles for free (gotta check the bible). not to mention his DP fierce arrows shut down any flight or super jumps you’re trying to do. plus there everyone favorite hyper…gimlet. that’ll shut down anything doom do and anchor doom has to get in vs hawkeye. if hawkeye has no meter then its easier to get in cause like the previous posters say…hawkeye can’t shoot diagonally from a distance. air Proton arrays or AHPA will help you as DJ said proton arrays + ADDF works to. its a tough matchup but doom can win if you’re smart about what to do and how you approach the opponent
U cannot take to the air against hawkeye. especially at super kump height. too many options to beat dooms setups. its a tough matchupfor sure
Figting Hawkeye with Zero I’ve learned to bait the scattered shot arrows with Super Jumps. Think baiting Ryu Hadoken so you can jump punish. Instead you bait them to cover the air and then you run on the ground past the shots and you are in there.
Works against bad Hawkeyes. I don’t know what response he is supposed to use against it.
wmd221
12
Just wait til you play a hawkeye good enough to trick shot H your plasma beams, heh. Air triple arrow, land H, ground triple arrow pretty much smashes any of dooms ground options and hawkeyes air to air will beat doom every time because doom can’t cover the horizontal angles. The way you have to play doom vs hawkeye is basically the way haggar has to play vs everybody
^Was gonna say the exact thing. I play Doom/Dorm/Sent, and even with those assists the matchup is fucked. Half the time I literally just get my health chipped down to about 30% then I just DHC into Stalker flare with Dorm and take the match from there.
Its unwinnable solo.
I think you basically have to stock up on meter, try to close the distance to about half screen and walk them into the corner. From there, you super jump to about half height, photon array. Pray Hawkeye doesn’t super jump out of the lasers and blocks them. After that, you pray for one miraculous throw.
But yeah, I think the only possible method of approach is just to try and float in off of a super jump and pray. It’s next to impossible to attempt the regular tri-dash forwards since triple arrows cover that entire portion of the screen.
If you play against Hawkeye anchor you just have to make sure your XF is available so you can avoid the chip and push your way in. It’s definitely not as bad if you’re in XF3 as it is with Haggar. Haggar has no projectiles or air dash. It’s obviously not going to be good but if you do get in, it’s XF and you can easily take him down in one mix up. If worst comes to worst I have Dante on my team and can always switch him into Devil Trigger to fight his anchor lame out. Hawkeye’s lack of mix up as anchor forces him to have to go in in some matchups any way.
I’m just saying you have to go to the air because no matter how bad it is in the air, it’s always worse on the ground for Doom any way.
D1
16
I need Doom anchor vs. Wesker anchor besides grab him outta teleports and kill him. Super jump up+back and spam proton shot? Zone w/ bunny hop j.C I’m assuming, and ground plasma beam spam should keep him away. I wanna say divekicks rape Wesker approaches, but if I don’t aim for top of his head I can’t airdash safely.
honestly, i hate having tofight wesker. maybe the change to air dashing will help the matchup but i seriously snap back wesker and try to mix him up/ xfactor kill. more often than not, in fights where I don’t snap wesker early,I end up losing the 1v1
Wesker anchor is not that hard to deal with IMO. He’s overhyped IMO. Loses his best mix up (assist + teleport) and just doesn’t put enough hit boxes on screen to really worry once you learn the matchup. XF2 Wesker + assist is much more of a problem. Your main goal as Doom anchor is to either lame out his XF if he’s already burned it or just kill him off period first. ** Doom definitely has the tools to lame out XF3 Wesker and Doom’s air normals (air M and air S) beat all of Wesker’s ground normals that are normally good for AA purposes.** The only thing he can try is standing S and that still trades in your favor if you use your air S.
Doom’s hardest anchors are fast/high priority anchors that can literally kill you from the top far corner of the screen. Wesker can lame out for a bit if he wants but he has to be near you to actually kill you in most situations (unless you’re out of XF or something). Wesker can’t really fill the screen with hit boxes and impede Doom’s progress as well as other anchors.
The hardest part you’ll have to deal with is if he’s already in XF3 and Doom hasn’t hit the screen yet (your 2nd character just died and Doom is coming in). Wesker has one of the best welcome mix up games when he’s in XF3 that convert to instant TOD’s but as long as you survive that it’s pretty even IMO. Basically just stay in the air and keep photon shots out so it’s harder for him to air grab you and then dash down with air M’s or S’s until you burn out his XF or you land a hit. Just be careful of Wesker trying to dash behind you while you’re in the air to cross you up or air throw you in the back. ** Landing an air S, dash down activate XF into s.M or H level 3 if you have level 3 is dead Wesker. You can also just do basic loop series into super and that will kill him.** Look at his player icon moving around as you’re in the air so you can know where Wesker is probably going to be as you’re coming down. If you have Wesker towards the corner use j.H gun to put a wall on the screen that will force him towards the corner. If you’re close enough and he gets hit in the air s.L or c.M to launch and kill him. With precise timing you can land level 3 just before he lands from a decent range also.
If the XF3 Wesker player is rushing you down hold on to your XF so you can guard cancel kill him with level 3. With Wesker’s health nerf and the additional damage guard cancel level 3 does when mashed you can kill off Wesker with XF3 level 3 right off breaks now which helps a lot. Not even him doing a c.L is safe against the guard cancel level 3 so that really forces him to respect you and play more defensively. In Vanilla if Wesker had full health he would still have some life left but now he’s just gone if you block anything he does that’s close enough to the ground for the level 3.
As far as ground footsies the only thing you really have is c.L. Although it’s really good since especially in XF you can match the speed of his c.L and it has more range than his c.L. If you’re daring enough to rush with it you can stuff his c.M also and get a kill off that. Although Doom’s inability to block or attack unless he jumps during his dash (you can block while you’re airborne after the ground dash) makes it tough to play typical ground footsies against him. The only other thing I would try doing is air dash forward M’s or super jump air dash down forward M’s or S’s. Both of those beat all of his ground normals and S will stop air throw attempts also. If you block anything he does just push block him away because that command grab is most likely coming next and he can’t rapid fire his normals to tick you like Magneto so just push him out.
The last thing to remember is don’t be afraid of his teleports. Although they are faster in XF they still have recovery so don’t let him do any raw teleports near you especially if your XF is activated also. Learn the ranges of L and H ground teleports (L runs along the ground, H appears above your head) and c.L punish any L teleports too close to you and air throw or S launcher punish any raw H teleports that are within punish range.
I would say Doom’s hardest anchors to deal with are Trish, Dorm and any other characters that can literally just make you practically useless at getting near them without an assist (turtle top far corner of screen characters that can do big damage to you from that range). There’s not really much you can do except throw photon shot on the ground and shoot hidden missiles after it and hope they don’t mash on some super. If you can get that to bring them to the ground then go in. If they force you to burn your XF and you don’t get in…it’s pretty much over.
view619
19
Super jump height, air plasma beams and H foot dives/air dash to change the angle, with air photon shot and S foot dives to get in. How well can Hawkeye cover diagonal and vertical angles without Gimlet/aiming with H arrow?
Hawkeye has the DP M and H arrows to reach up and diagonal if possible. I remember going to the balance thread and one of the users talking about how Hawkeye vs. Doom in a battle of anchors tends to end up in Hawkeye’s favor for the most part. And that the Greyhound assist is better than Plasma Beam assist.
