There’s no real setup for me, I just simply walk up until I’m at close-range, and do an instant jump kunai. It ALWAYS works, but people aren’t used to seeing that form of kunai vortex. It’s very quick, hard to determine which direction to block, but comes at the risk of being easier to reversal. Fortunately, most people aren’t thinking about the reversal when Ibuki is standing at that range.
The problem is… When I just walk up jump kunai after a sweep, even if the kunai connects, they can punish me, because of ibuki´s jump-kunai recovery. I´m sure I´m timming it wrong. Should I throw late or soon the kunai?
Jump earlier.
Watch the kunai and see where it hits. If its hits their chest or something, Ibuki is bound to be too high to recover from the kunai. If it’s low enough and the kunai hits, but you still get punished, your followups are too slow. If you practice vortex enough, you’ll just naturally know when the kunai will hit 
You’re not forced to superjump (which adds extra recovery frames). You can just jump (a bit later) if you want.
Late jumps - kunai are imho excellent tools for your vortex. Your opponent will be mindfucked as he won’t be able to guess if you’re about to do a kunai, a normal jumpin or an empty jump.
And you can make the kunai crossup/non crossup at will. What else.
Technically, superjumps have the same recovery as regular jumps, assuming you did something in the air. Superjumps simply have a larger jump arc, and you’re in the air for a couple more frames.
Really? For an unknown reason, I’ve always thought that a super jump has more recovery than a normal jump. Maybe it’s just me bein stupid
Your timing on either the jump or the kunai is wrong. You want to throw the kunai as fast as possible, so that by the time you land, you can follow up with a combo. Even if they block, and you know they want to counter it, you still have time to backdash or something to get out of harm’s way if you’d like. You want the kunai to land DEEP in their body.
It might feel like that due to the fact that if you do something like a super jump air kunai, you tend to rise up faster, therefore you throw the kunai later, and thus you land later as well, making it feel like it has more recovery. My theory.
So I was training for the Sagat matchup and I found a few stuff. I don’t know if this is already supposed to be known, but well
Had some fun first with safe jumps/ Option selects. Looks like the best OS choice here is a sweep.
BTW. the neckbreaker - cr.MK - j.HP safe jump is NOT SAFE against Sagat’s Ultra 1.
Then I tried to find some good kunai setups, because Sagat waking up later + his TU autocorrecting usually give me a hard time.
So after a MK Tsumuji you can do st.LP SJ kunai to beat his possible reversals.
But then I found something more interesting.
Setup is neckbreaker - b.MP - sj.kunai.
The timing is kinda strict (as it won’t be a blockstring if you miss it), but the results are awesome.
Here is the video:
[media=youtube]AOPT-Z4op0U[/media]
So it looks like Sagat can’t do a lot of things here except blocking, so he has to bet on which side will the kunai land (if you’re good enough with kunais to make them crossup/noncrossup at will, of course).
What do you guys think?
I think I’ve never had a problem with Sagat’s TU autocorrecting on me.
lol troll?
Copying from YouTube
[LIST]
[*]You should use st.HK after this set-up.
When Sagat is juggled when he Backdashes or does LP Uppercut, you can combo him with st.HK and follow up with HK Kazegiri on reaction. It is impossible to react to the juggle alone with a Raida, so using st.HK is a good option-select.
If Sagat gets hit or dashes into Ibuki you can do st.HK SJC CD cr.HP or simpley st.HK into HK Kazegiri if your execution isn’t perfect.
If Sagat does a focus forward dash st.HK will become far.st.HK and hit him.
[*]You should change st.HK to st.MP if he starts doing wake-up HP/EX Uppercut (then reaction punish with Neckbreaker or something) or if he starts to block the Vortex as st.MP will continue the true block-string.
[*]But to be honest this is simply a regular Meaty Kunai. The b+MP or Ageman is unnecessary, but if Sagat gets used to blocking you can do Neckbreaker -> Ageman -> j.HP xx j.MK
In fact, whiffing the Ageman for the Kunai Vortex is bad practice. It’s better to get a feel for the timing instead, otherwise you’re telegraphing what you’re going to do.
[/LIST]
I don’t think a “set-up” is necessary against Sagat. I don’t think any of us have problems throwing a Meaty Kunai by this stage. But in general after a Meaty Kunai against Sagat I usually always go for st.HK until he either does EX Uppercut twice or blocks then does an Uppercut.
If he blocks the Kunai then does an Uppercut, he’s mashing after seeing the block-stun, so just do st.MP (for a true blockstring) on your way down and hit-confirm off that. If on hit continue your combo (maybe double Tsumuji Loop, or st.MP st.MP st.MK, or if he’s crouching just simply st.MK st.MK)… But if you see him guarding then block and punish his mashed Uppercut.
Extra tip: when you do the st.MP and he blocks it, the idea is that you’re expecting a mashing Uppercut afterwards. If he has 2 bars of meter then backdash. If he doesn’t, after the st.MP, block for a few frames and then do st.LP. The Sagat player won’t be thinking of delaying his Uppercut if he’s going to do it at all, but if he sees that you’ve done nothing chances are your st.LP will beat whatever normal he will dish out (including crouch-tech). You could even do an overhead here or tick-throw.
Autopilot cl.st.HK is a great idea and all, but if he blocks it, you’re putting yourself in a -3 situation.
I can personally react with jump-back Kunai or something. Although I usually just do LK CD on the vast majority of players who will proceed to getting counter-hit as they don’t know Ibuki’s frame-data.
I think it was Kooky who was able to react and do SJC Tsumuji instead which was a true-blockstring. Eitherway, the idea is to make him stop doing Uppercuts or Focus all together, then switch to st.MP.
Yes, and I’m not sure you can blockstring with it. The fact that this kunai is thrown kinda late (to catch backdash - should work to beat Viper’s EX Seismo as weill I think) makes it difficult to have a real blockstring. I’m having trouble making cr.LP connect as a blockstring, so I’m not sure I’d autopilot use HK even if it’s a good option for sure
This is where we are in extreme disagreement. Here are my thoughts about this:
- Having a “feel” for this timing is bad practice imho. Why? Because you’re relying only on your sense of timing. We’re speaking about something to be calibrated at 1/60 seconds (okay, let’s say a bit more) so even if you get the timing right, you’re still able to miss it sometimes. I actually learned this “whiff your normals” trick from Alioune back when I was trying to take Yang as my main, and chances are that if he does it, it’s probably not a bad practice
- And it’s actually even another tool in my bluff arsenal. Why? Because after Agemen I can also go for a safe jump (ok, I’d have to delay it a bit against Sagat
) or even an empty jump. What I’m trying to do by whiffing my normal is exactly to make my opponent think that I’m telegraphing what I’m going to do. Just take my “favorite” setup into account: neckbreaker - st.LP - SJ kunai. Why do I love this one? Because it beats 3-framers and some other reversals (except Cammy and Sagat, their DP autocorrects through the kunai. Seth’s EX Hyakuretsu also autocorrects if I’m doing a crossup kunai). And moreover, because the following kunai will anyway end up in a random side I’d have decided. I remember losing to a guy at the arcades who told me “I could beat you because I realized that when you whiff st.LP, your kunai will always crossup”. I actually lost because back at this time I was just experimenting this one and I was not sure enough on how to mae it crossup/non crossup. I came back a few days laters and completely mindfucked him.
) or even an empty jump. What I’m trying to do by whiffing my normal is exactly to make my opponent think that I’m telegraphing what I’m going to do. Just take my “favorite” setup into account: neckbreaker - st.LP - SJ kunai. Why do I love this one? Because it beats 3-framers and some other reversals (except Cammy and Sagat, their DP autocorrects through the kunai. Seth’s EX Hyakuretsu also autocorrects if I’m doing a crossup kunai). And moreover, because the following kunai will anyway end up in a random side I’d have decided. I remember losing to a guy at the arcades who told me “I could beat you because I realized that when you whiff st.LP, your kunai will always crossup”. I actually lost because back at this time I was just experimenting this one and I was not sure enough on how to mae it crossup/non crossup. I came back a few days laters and completely mindfucked him.Just try something (I find it very fun BTW): Play online. 1st knockdown: neckbreaker - st.LP - SJ noncrossup kunai. Second knockdown: same. At this point if your opponent has a brain, he’ll tell himself “okay, this one is a non crossup kunai”. 3rd knockdown: make it crossup. And laugh about it.
Moreover, it may be just me, but I had a very hard time being able to throw a kunai that’d stuff 3-framers. The fact that I was “feeling this timing” was the main problem: the timing is a bit different to stuff Yun’s DP or Ryu’s DP, and I don’t think that you’re able to just delay your jump by 2 frames at will. At least, I can’t do it (which is also the reason why I’m not playing AE PC anymore: I have a serious problem when it comes to adapt all my timings to the current platform)
BTW, the main reason I play Ibuki is because she’s a lot of fun when it comes to mindfucking your opponent. Those whiffed normals make my opponents think that I’m actually very rational and I have fixed schematics for every setup, but I’m actually trying to be unexpected at all times.
So anyway: unlike what you said, whiffing normals is actually a very good idea because if used in a smart way, your opponent will try to predict your moves by looking at the normal, and you basically won if you were able to make him think like that. Otherwise we’d also go for safe jumps without even whiffing stuff to time it.
You said it yourself, you have trouble making cr.LP continue the blockstring. When I do a Meaty Kunai, it can hit either side, and I’m +5/6 which makes st.MP continue as a true block-string. I’m not saying that whiffing normals for timing is bad, but Ageman is not the right timing.
Actually I guess it’s something that’s unique to me, but I’ve always been able to count and predict in my head when something will land during Okizeme. Not to say I can do 1-frame Unblockables, but with the Meaty Kunai timing I have there’s about a ~3-frame leniency and I get a true blockstring 90% of the time.
I don’t think timing the Kunai Vortex is any different timing a long spaced link in a combo.
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Hard time beating 3-frame DPs with the Kunai Vortex? At the start of my Video Guide I tell you how to practice the timing. That timing is safe so all DP Reversals (not including Ultras) apart from Cammy, Blanka, and Sagat ('cause of different wake-up timings) – it also leaves you at +5/6 on block.
I never had to worry about DPs beating my Kunai Vortex.
whats the most frame advantage on hit a kunai can give?
Depends, technically you can get up to like positive 9 if you hit the toes – which would allow you to combo into pretty much everything including Ultra 2.
But after a Vortex expect about positive 7. I know you can’t combo into cr.HP after the regualer Meaty Kunai set-up.
Yes, and this timing is more or less exactly the timing you can get by whiffing a st.LP, which is why I use it.
I’m still looking for good ways to time a kunai against Sagat/Cammy/Blanka because as I said I don’t like to rely on “pure timing”.
MK Tsumuji - st.LP - sj.kunai is okay, and neckbreaker - agemen - sj.kunai is okay, and allows me to continue a blockstring afterwards, so why shouldn’t I use it?
I don’t know about MK Tsumuji, but Neckbreaker -> Ageman -> sj.Kunai does not give you enough time to continue a block-string with st.MP does it? That’s what you said, and I can almost tell from looking that the frame-advantage you get isn’t enough.
For Blanka this timing is good, but it loses to regular Electricity, so you can’t always use it.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t use normals, but against Sagat this timing doesn’t give you the best Meaty Kunai.
Not sure for st.MP blockstring. I can “easily” cr.LP blockstring, I think if the timing is correct I may be able to do st.MP blockstring.
But anyway I don’t use st.MP in this situation because it’s not a blockstring starter, which is why I usually go for target combo LP MP HP or just cr.LP.
I will try to check other possibilities, but agemen make it start a blockstring, so I can’t really say that the timing is bad if it works, right? =)