Does CVS2 experience help in MVC2 and 3S?

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
21

I totally Disagree with that statement…

Dont get me wrong there have been players that have started in Marvel and have been successful in other fighting games… but for a game that was at one time the most played fighting game in the US and is probably still up there … there hasnt been many “Good” players that have come out of this community…

After about 5 years of Marvel players refuse to play other games because they “sux” at it… plain and simple…

Basic concepts in Marvel just doesnt transfer over to other games easily…

yes blocking and the ability to react quickly do serve in every fighting game and Marvel definately allow players to enhance those skills but the other concepts is just isnt the same…

Yes Marvel has mindgames, range control, and other fighting game qualities but Marvel is just played differently from games like CvS2 or Tekken 5 or even Guilty Gear… its just not the same…

It is definately easier for og SF players to go into Marvel and into other fighting games just because the “concept” of footsies, range control, and mindgames have already been established

Marvel is just a unique game and people can either play it or they cant… a new generation of fighting gamer have come from playing Marvel unfortunately the average player that plays Marvel just cannot transfer into other games

So no… not because u play marvel you are automically good at any fighting games

RenoROB

22

i think marvel and st or any other SF II game is most helpful in strengthening your foundation. 3s does give me a few bad habits in other games (trying to parry in ST and CvS outside of P groove), but it does help my execution some. CvS never really does much for me.

23

You would think that would be true but…
Honestly…

Take away Justin and Ricky from the equation

there hasnt been a Marvel player that have really done anything significant in ST

besides Combofiend and maybe a couple of others there hasnt been anyone that has done anything with CvS2 or 3s

Combofiend and Ruin are the only ones thats done anything in GGXX #r

SooMighty maybe in Tekken 5

No one in King of Fighters

So again I cannot agree with what u’re saying either…

sorry,

RenoROB

24

It’s not true though, the games are so completely different. Everything in Marvel is fast, whether you’re running and turtling or rushing, everything is fast. Slowing down from such a fast pace, is just as hard as playing slow paced games going into a fast game.

There’s no medium button in Marvel, which will fuck you up coming or going. If you’re used to having a medium kick button, you’re gonna be going for medium hits and gettin fierces in Marvel, or going for a fierce ang gettin’ assists. If you’re used to not having a medium button, when you go for a fierce attack you’re gonna get a medium.

Then in Marvel you got chain combos, just about every normal buffers into the next (there’s some occasions, but just about everyone’s got a magic series). In 3S, and CvS 2(sorta) there’s more timing involved just linking normals (not that it’s hard) but if you just slide your finger down from punch to kick, it won’t work. And vic versa, if you play Marvel and do combos like you do in 3S they’re gonna fall right out.

Basically what I’m trynna say is wahat I already had said - basics stay the same, with slight adjustments in everything. If you’re too used to one, it will fuck you up in all the others, being good at one doesn’t maek you good at em all.

It’s like saying playing football makes you good at rugby.

25

Ummm… I suck at marvel. The only singles tourny I played 3s in I lost to Combofeind. (Another time I played team tourny with Cole and Ken I, and lost every single round!) Cvs2 is prolly my best game. Im pretty scrubby at T5, all I do is lame poke-> throw or block patterns. I cant get into GG because its like Marvel without assists, and everyone is Magneto.
KOF sucks and I dont play it, never played VF.

I never said 3s was just special canceling… thats stupid.
I said things like Fast Fly make it look like childsplay.
Because special canceling is about as complicated as inputs get in 3s.

Knowing what the fuck youre talking about, and going off on some idiotic tangent are 2 different things.

26

i played fighting games way back when sf2 first came to the home system. thats about when i got into fighting games, but i stopped playing from about ST until about a year ago, so all these games are new to me. knowing the very basics of sf2 controls and strategies, i can get into both cvs2 and 3s very easily. i play both those games everyday. i sat down several times to try and figure mvc2 out and i can’t do it. i feel like a 3 year old playing chess against a master on the easiest settings. i think knowledge in cvs2 basics tranfer over to 3s alot better than mvc2. mvc2 is just a totally different ball game. to me, it seems like mvc2 is moer about precision and speed, while 3s and cvs2 are more about strategy…but i’m not claiming any vast knowledge in fighting games, just an amatures opinion of the games…

27

I dont know about marvel cause i hate the game but it will help out your 3s game in terms of executing shit. if ya need help with 3s hit me up on aim or msn or yahoo or whatever

28

Everyone keeps saing “average” marvel player. I never mentioned average. I mentioned “really good” which is the equivalent of 5 or 6 average players put together and fused.

Josh wigfall has become a top 3s player in ec. HMMMMM…
justin wong…HMMM
combo didn’t start in marvel, or did he?
Mikey Rashpone top nor cal cvs2 player… HMMM
list goes on…

you COULD argue they are just really good overall.
ST players could learn marvel and excel maybe 5-6 years ago. Not now imo. High level marvel players need to constantly play to stay on top of their game. I cannot say the same for cvs2 players, maybe 3s. But who cares what i say lol.

Maybe it just depends on the person. From what i’ve personally seen marvel players have easiest transition. heh

29

Heres my two cents on this-I think all fighting games have some universal concept that you can apply and that transfers from one game to the next. Take mindgames, they transfer across CVS2,MVC2,3s, SC2,T5, and the list goes on and on. EVEN KOF have you. I think if you find the things that are universal then you can apply those to ANY GAME YOU WISH…instead of saying “such in such helps me with this.”

30

But all them cats who are top Marvel players and top players in other games probably play ALL those games on a regular basis.

I doubt any of them played Marvel for 5 years then picked up 3S and were immediately top 5.

31

Justin learns things quickly, but even he took a fairly long time to make the transition into other games. At first, he was really only great at MvC2…he wasn’t even good at MvC1.

The only reason why top ST players and top old school players really didn’t make the transition is because…well…let’s be honest, everyone pretty much quit before Marvel really became big. After Marvel came out, a lot of the old school players played it for maybe about a year, and Jill, Iceman, Doom, Cable and maybe Blackheart were the top tier. Everyone pretty much then quit and played other things. It was here that basically a new generation started playing. I mean, Eddie basically went on to do whatever it is he does on Wall Street, I think Arturo went and dissapeared for awhile, Valle obviously quit, and I think Viscant made the transition really well but I guess he got old after 2 years or so. Everyone tried Marvel and then moved onto CvS1 and then CvS2 because both were released afterwards (I think). The Marvel crowd played the hell out of Marvel, but then…even after years, nothing else came out. So they were basically forced to make the transition to other games. I don’t see anyone making a quick transition though. Marvel is just harder to learn than other games and requires a specific skillset, but, I don’t think that skillset is common with other games, so it is harder to carry it into other games. This is also why a lot of old school players aren’t great at Marvel, it’s because they don’t want to learn a new skill set. It’s harder to relearn something different and similar, than it is to learn something new for the first time. Old school players are good at a variety of games because the skills were very similar.

The newer games have a lot more gimmicks that have slowly been lessening this gap in skill though, and that’s probably why CvS2 is easier to pickup for Marvel players than a game like ST. Justin and a lot of other Marvel players probably have high reaction times and great execution for combos, especially lengthier combos that maybe old school people don’t have the talent for, or just refuse to learn. In this way, a Marvel player can just practice some big damage options, and learn the very minimal amounts of spacing, positioning etc. needed to win, and succeed at CvS2 and other games. It’s not really the same as not knowing anything about a game and succeeding at it though, based on just poking and old school skills.

If you really need a counterpoint…Ricky went and learned MvC2 in about 2 hours 2 years ago and then went and got into the finals…and he’s not a Marvel first/Marvel originally guy at all. I don’t know what Soo or D.Hyo play outside of Marvel either, maybe they play stuff, I don’t know.

32

I agree on third paragraph around the end.(poking skills to be specific) Made a lot of sense and is very true. I don’t think poking skills are that hard to pick up imo. Learning info about older games is hardest. Mainly, because no one plays those games, and if you missed the game’s prime you’re left out of the loop from certain nuances that matchups have.

You are wrong about ricky he is og marvel player. Went to the first shgl tournies and won over duc one time i believe.(When run away storm was first introduced.) Maybe he stopped playing, but he did(as far as i know) play since it came out.

33

Well the problem is that there will always gifted players like Justin and Ricky…

and like I posted earlier they are the exception…

Combofiend is probably the only other big name player that has really transitioned out of Marvel and has made a name for himself in other games…

Mikey is a good cvs2 player but not a top player… Josh 3s?? havent really see him place in any major tourney in 3s

but talk about big names… how bout u? what have u done in any other games?? u tried xx sol… that didnt go well… rowtrown tried xx and he didnt do so hot… how bout other big Seattle Marvel players none of them that has transioned…

Top So Cal Marvel players… besides Combo and Soo (I heard he’s pretty good in Tek5) no one really has made a name for himself outside Marvel…

East Coast? No one really… Santhrax is playing t5 but ive only really see him place high in one tourney…

so of all the major coast no top players Marvel player have even been able to transition into other games and have much success…

About your comment that top marvel players needs to constantly practice to keep their skill level… same can be said with other games…

take Ricky and Justin out of the question…

CvS2 - Choi/Valle/Cole/Nelson/Arturo/EddieLee all pre-Marvel players actually dominated the game w/ the exception of Combofiend… it wasnt until after CvS2 died out that u saw some marvel players transitioned into CvS2 and even then with little success…

3s - Pyro/Frankie/Vic etc have all continue to dominate the 3s scene no Marvel players have even come near the level of their gameplay…

ST - Still dominated by old SF players, no Marvel names except justin and ricky has even had any success in the older games…

GGXX - Besides Ruin and Combo… Marvel players have tried but almost all of em have quit and gone back to playing Marvel because of their little success in #r…

Im sorry I still dont agree…

RenoROB

34

Sanford won t5 in canada lol. Countless cvs2 tournies

My sol was pretty hot, had i stuck with ggxx i would of got top 8.(;)) I did fairly well @ eccx(defeated eddie lee, almost beat ratio1beatdown) came in third in my bracket in cvs2(a game i don’t play). Problem is i don’t know how to roll cancel consistently, but i can custom. lol. Also, i was not to fond of ggxx. My milia was okay, i still can use her to compete, but lack of comp/car really effected my chances of learning the game to tops.

Mikey is up there with leezy and them how is that not top player? lol
wigfall is tops in 3s in ny.
shady k and genghis are monsters in cvs2 and 3s.
romel and id were both marvel players previous to ggxx. heh.

But anyways i have stopped trying to prove a point. I still agree with myself(kinda), but i have concluded that it is more talented players rather than marvel players that are transitioning like monsters. It works both ways. Some people just have “it” when it comes to games in total. Like that guy ruin. Doesn’t really have comp in any game but still wins tournies like nothing.(Same with most of names i have named.) Maybe marvel just has the most talented players. They might of done the same had they been introdouced to other games first. But it is a fact that cvs2 players cannot transition to marvel. Cvs2 will help in 3s tho.

35

I kind of started with MvC2, and it didn’t help me with the poking/footsie kind of play in 3s sometimes, but I adapted to it…

36

Well, like I’ve said before, nothing can help you transition into Marvel. It’s just a different game than anything else.

I still have to disagree with you though. Rob is better at showing players and history than I am, since I don’t really follow it much, so I will just concur with him.

I think it depends on your definition of top player too…but if you’re extending top play status like that, what about Arturo and Eddie in Mvc2? They’re both very good, even though they don’t care about the game. They’re definitely ‘top player’ status if you count winning games, and not being the absolute best at the game. I mean, who the heck beats Justin and Sanford anyway? If you want to talk about going from one game to another, and not just Marvel to another, then I think the old school players have shown more ability to play different games. Look at the total number of games Valle, Choi, Art, Eddie and Nibor for awhile played, winning or placing top 3 consistently.

Is Ricky really a Marvel first guy? I know he played A3 and a lot of other games before. I know Jeron, Ricky, Eddie and Art all also played KOF. I don’t think Justin started transitioning to other games until he moved into CvS2 first, but I’m probably wrong on that. Justin is pretty much good at everything now, but I think part of that is he just has better reactions that pretty much everyone else, moreso than just being good at Marvel (as you mentioned). The reason why it took him a while to get good at everything else is he sort of needed to develop the ‘thinking’ skills for the other games. I agree with you though that both Ricky and Justin are just extremely talented.

37

Yeah, it’s just marvel has the most talent then. That is my conclusion instead of bringing up every player in the history of marvel. lol. Excluding justing from my side isn’t too fair, but he is just “the one.” Whatever. purple city byrdgang.

38

Wow everyone has some good arguments. Im a casual player really dont do the tournament scene but I have played and seen some tournament players.
What I’ve notice is this.

MvC2 makes you good in MvC2. The game is just a totally different beast then anything else out there.
However people who are good in CvS2 do pretty ok in 3s.
Guilty Gear is another one of those games where the skills dont really transfer to anything else but GG.

There are exception to this like Justin and shit. But really I think thats do more to him being an overall good player rather than him being able to transfer any one of the skill sets from one game to another.