Does anybody know what happened at the Ultimate SF Panel?

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21

guys, first off, thank you for those who has attended the panel. I just got off the plane and I am checking whats been posted for the last few days. It is so cool of you that you are excited to the upcoming stuff happening to SF!

On the game end, as I have mentioned at the panel, I have been bugging them a lot and they said they are considering something. But even as close as I am with them they wont give me any more info that that. So no need to keep asking when is SF4 coming out, coz there will not be any definately answer yet. I am crossing my fingure that they are gonna possibly do something for the 20th anniversary. Lets all keep our fingures crossed.

22

That was you? :wow: I was wondering who the hell it was yammering on like that. :rofl: I admit at first I thought it didn’t make sense, but the more I thought about it, the more I figured you had a bit of a point: it is a fairly complicated game with a lot to remember. However, the tutorial doesn’t do jack if the player doesn’t practice; thorough practice is what good playing skills boil down to, and after enough of it, all those moves become instinct. In the old-school SF days, I found a machine that wasn’t constantly mobbed and stood there for hours pumping quarters into it just trying to improve my playing. I can tell you after 14 years of playing SF that even a good teacher and/or a tutorial have no effect if the machine itself isn’t kept in good shape; with console versions, it’s even harder because you’re limited by the controller itself (some people use the d-pad, some prefer analog, some prefer to buy sticks and use that; in the end, it’s more or less the same thing).

While I agree that maybe some kind of teaching tool would be helpful for easing newbies into the game, isn’t that basically what Training Mode is for?

23

Okay good to hear from Udoneko regarding the subject.

And about the tutorial, how about something like SF EX 1-2 had? For example, they had a mode where you practiced combos and for wach combo your grade for the character increased, and each combo became that much harder. And after performing lots of combos in SF EX1 you were rewarded by unlocking secret characters. Or perhaps something like SFZ3 World Tour Mode or Darkstalkers Chaos Tower Mode only some of the objects of the game would be learning to poke or something like that (brief tutorial proceeding) and you are rewarded for the experience with artwork, characters, maybe unlocking more moves, etc. Alls I’m saying is make any sort of tutorial fun, enjoyable and rewarding. I have other… possibly EVEN LAMER ideas about the gameplay, I wish someone with SRK authority would start a thread on it and we can get some kind of confirmation Capcom is looking/considering anything we say before this thread becomes a gameplay idea thread, but that’s just me…

About the snk-capcom.com R.I.P. - Yeah, I think that did have something to do with it, it’s kind of uneasy for me to speak about people’s reaction to death and stuff, especially with all of the snk-capcom visitors we get…

24

You forgot something…

Street Fighter : 1986

Nearly another decade’s gap. Maybe Capcom is biding time. Yet from what they have produced recently, it could be the explanation for the lack of quality in their other releases in its’ 2K years( i.e. CVSNK for its’ reused sprites and lack of plot device.) The attention they are giving the series now is quite poor. Recognition for its’ anniversary could perhaps allow them to buy more time for this release, if there is “something” being planned for SF. If UDON or Capcom could shed light on the subject/project better through their sites, I would probably believe them than take word from an onlooker who could not quote them properly. This “something” could be anything. Maybe it means that Microsoft is buying the franchise in order to monopolize the gaming world further. Could be ANYTHING.

Patience is quite the virtue here, yet if the facts cannot be told from the source correctly, then this is all hen cluck. Gossip, really.

P.S. if they are producing a new Street Fighter, Ryu should be either a hidden character or boss type. It’s time for the world warrior to take his rightful place on the throne. As for the TEIR, everything possible has been done in fighting games. Graphically, it should retain the 2D look, yet a bit more over III’s style. Character wise: Sean’s training should take to focus, and Sakura should also make her comeback. Plot-wise, start with what the Street Fighter III saga ended off with.

Well there are my suggestions so far.

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By the way, Clankaddaxter of Gamefaqs asked what was the name of the Capcom Representative? It’s nice to attach at least a name to this person for us people who were not there instead of just saying “Capcom said…” I know he represents/represented Capcom but still.

26

It’s tough for me to explain what i’m requesting without writing up the whole tutorial on the spot. (We’ll get to that someday.) I was going over it in my head like a hundred times and kept changing my mind about whether or not i should talk about it. I knew 100% that it wasn’t gonna work unless i basically wrote it up as a presentation and submitted it to Capcom. But finally i decided that it was probably the only chance i was gonna get to talk to the Capcom reps and someone should try to make it sound like us players are trying to find ways to get them new customers and improve their sales. (That we’re not just asking for new features out of personal desire.)

In retrospect, i realize you guys are totally right and that i shouldn’t have brought it up. I had decided against it until Erik mentioned that bit about game ideas for “the next SF game” so i just kinda wanted to test out what he meant. If i had the chance to do it again, i would have just asked what Capcom planned to do for Evolution. But since the Manga guys are trying to get the SFA Generation anime premiered at Evo and since Jason Wilson at Nuby said that he’s getting like $500 in prize support, i think they would have just focused on that and let the Capcom reps off the hook for totally ignoring the Evolution tournaments every year. It’s funny too cuz this whole site and that whole tournament series exists cuz we all love Street Fighter, but we can get Namco/Tecmo/Midway support and sponsorship. We just can’t get Capcom to notice.

I apologize to those of you guys that didn’t get to ask your question cuz i did.

27

[Quote=Majestros]

He did mention that they are open for SF4 gameplay (not storyline) suggestions, so i made a suggestion at the convention that they include an in-game tutorial mode. People need to be taught how to find a character’s poke button, how to find a quick close-range button to set up and counter throws, why it’s a bad idea to jump, how fireballs should be used, how to defend, how to attack and so on and so forth. None of these things are easy, and it’s gotten to the point where the only way to learn SF is to talk to someone who knows SF. As a game, SF is a hundred times more complicated than DMC3. Capcom felt the need to put help messages in DMC3, so why not SF? I said that if Capcom was unwilling or unable to build such a tutorial, there are lots of us players that would do it damn near for free.

[/Quote]

I think this is an excellent idea that will definitely help those who wish to learn the game improve in SF and fighting games in general, by teaching the basic concepts of fighting games and making available (to the dismay of guide books perhaps), frame data and technical info. Character specific strategies are still best left to guides and playing experience as in any decent fighter, matchups, bugs, strats are discovered over time. This is definitely a good idea.

The one trouble is, the player still needs to put in much work and effort to see improvement. A tutorial will not make timing, execution, etc easier. I’ve had many friends who give up on fighters because in there opinion, it is too hard as they can’t get, for example, a combo I show them on the first few tries. i think seeing some immediate result and making things easy and not whether it is useful in competition or not is more appealing to people. Developers know this and hence add things like we CvS2 Easy Operation, auto blocking (e.g., Alpha 1), easy mode (e.g., MvC), the choice to lower opponent health, difficulty after a loss (Garou, Kof2002).

28

Basically you want what exists already in VF4Evo. It’s an idea I think should be implemented in most fighting games as it eliminates the exra costs of buying badly worded guides or hunting them down online.

It’s worth putting in extensive systems like these in the long run. At least that way, a loser can’t moan and say “But I didn’t know you could do that or I didn’t train that”. It’s then their fault being lazy and not dedicated enough. And if they’re not dedicated enough, then they should stay at home and play.

It’s a good idea, not original, but well worth doing in my opinion.

29

Yeah, i never claimed it was original. In fact, when i brought it up at the conference, i cited DBZ3:Budokai and DMC3 as examples. I have no idea what type of tutorial exists in VF4Evo, but i’ll check it out as soon as i get my PS2 back from my brother.

My basic viewpoint is this: SF has become increasingly complex since the SF2 series. This increasing complexity has been well-received by the fans, but has left the mainstream audience behind. I think Capcom needs to find a way to ease people through the transition. I’m not talking about combo tutorials like SFEX, but rather strategy tutorials.

For example, it would be nice if the game explained the basic concept of the fireball trap. To do this, i would give the player control of Ryu and randomly pick an opponent character with a slow jump (Honda, Zangief or Chun Li). Have the player throw fireballs until the opponent jumps, then have the player anti-air the opponent with one of three moves (standing roundhouse, low fierce, or DP). Make it so that the fireballs inflict no damage, to emphasize their tactical value over their damage. Then do a modified version of this using the corner, where the object is to make the opponent block as many fireballs as possible before they escape.

The goal is to get people to start thinking of SF as sort of a puzzle game. This will help them through the initial stages of the learning process. It’s the same basic principle as poker or chess. The first step is to learn to get the most mileage out of your tools, and how to combine the different pieces at your disposal for maximum output. Once you have that down, then you can start trying to read the opponent and worrying about outplaying them on the mental level.

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DBZ3 has a tutorial? I honestly never expected that from a DBZ game, fighter or not. We learn something new every day.

31

just being at the SF panel and knowing people like udon, block buster, sota, manga ent, and other companies are pushing SF forward while capcom is doing jack, kinda pisses me off.

having fans help make a tutorial mode for the next SF would be easy. like majestros said, i would do it for free too =]

32

I know we aren’t here to discuss story, but if Capcom really does intend to make a SF4 it would makes sense to finally wrap up all the dangling plots from SFA/SF2. Ryu needs to finally attain his ultimate power or learn the meaning of the fight or whatever and settle the score with Akuma and Sagat if he’s still out there. And could we have a little bit of a fresh look and style please? I love the classic Ryu, but could we have the character evolve a little bit. Maybe actually tweak his gameplay to reflect his status in the actual story, (Make his projectile bigger, faster, or multi-hit) and have the poor guy learn some new moves? The fireball/dragon/hurricane is awesome, but the guy is a fighting legend. You would think he could make a move of his own one day. I know he honors Gouken’s teachings and all, but come on. As this would probably be the last SF we will ever see I would hope everything comes full circle and perhaps opens up doors for maybe the Rival Schoolers and the SF3 kids to evolve into a future 3D fighting series. I hate 3D myself, but 2D is unfortunately on it’s last legs and 3D street fighter is still better than no Street Fighter, at least to me.

33

I’m taking Majestros’s advice and am writing down my ideas for improvements. The indepth tutorial is a great idea that has no business not being included in SF4. To add to this idea: the tutorial should have an analyzer mode where the player can do an attack and then replay it and actually see the part of the body that deals damage, what parts are invincible and how long do these states last in the animation. The tutorial should explain invincibility frames, high/low blocking and the offenses that overcome them, the three periods of an attack(start-up, damaging, recovery), tick throwing, anti airs, risk management, meaty attacks, not being predictable, analyzing the opponent’s actions, making the best of an oppurtunity, etc.

Beyond making the games, Capcom can do alittle more to keep SF alive(for the tournament scene), entertaining(for a larger audience) and profittable(for Capcom).

In the future Capcom should:

-Make like Namco and give SF4 arcade(as well as any other arcade fighters) console controller support(PS2 and USB I guess).
-ADVERTISE(don’t ask me how long it took me to find out that SF3 exists)
-Support EVO as an official tournament. People that buy SF4 should know about EVO and when/where it will be held. Maybe even hold(AND ADVERTISE) regional tournaments to get free transportation and lodging for EVO. Capcom don’t have to pay for everything, just not turn a blind eye. Maybe lend some arcades(with console controller compatibility) so the tournament won’t look so bleh.
-More unification between Capcom divisions. Who here trusts Cap USA to make a good SF?
-More info. Way too much is left to be assumed when it comes to Capcom and SF.
-Plug SRK.
-Make the console and arcade versions of SF4 cross-compatible through online play with no regional lockout.
-Release more arcades.

34

Not necesarilly inovative or anything but the only Gameplay aspect I wish they’d set up for SF4 is the round set up used in Vampire Savior, Tech Romancer and the one CFAS was going to use as well. Basically, if your opponent gets knocked down your meter doesn’t automatically refill, there’s does. It just makes it seem more like real fighting and personally if I beat someone within a pixel of his life and loose the round having his meter snap back full kind of makes all of the hardwork for nothing. This Round set up also makes it feel like a real fight to me. When a Boxer knocks his opponent down, the victor Boxer’s energy doesn’t automatically heal up. Neither does the knocked down opponent but in reality if his ‘energy’ is really represented by 2 bars the second one would be up and ready, oh I don’t think that made one lick of sense, oooh… not exactly innovative but that’s my SF4 gameplay suggestion there. When I discovered this round set up in Vampire Savior, I wished it would of become the norm myself.

EDIT: In the Fan Art section there’s a thread where people can submit drawings of their SF4 characters. I’ll be sure to submit Ryu and Chun-Li’s bastard child soon enough mwahahahahaha!

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95476&page=1

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Mr. Erik wasn’t 20th anniversary collection the big moment?

36

DOA 4’s shutter effect.

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Wrong thread, buddy. And there are scans showing it at:

http://www.xboxyde.com/news_1749_en.html

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I think Capcom should continue to make well animated sprites and backgrounds (maybe even more accurate sprite animations than those included in SF3). There should also be nice sharp 2D Backgrounds with Lense flare effect and whatnot. I only say this because people these days are spoiled by graphics, and they immediately asume that 3D will always be better than 2D. This new generation of fighters dont know anything.

When I think of 3rd Strike however. As far as further gameplay improvement goes. I think Third Strike pretty much makes you hit a wall… The fighting system is so perfect… that I cant really imagine going forward with Street Fighter 4. The parry system is a must right now, and not to mention they actually include Super Cancels as a basic part of the game.

I know Capcom probably has a big ego… But they should just go ahead and pull a shameless act. Its done SNK a favor (boo hoo, they stold Ryu, made him look like ken and named him Ryo - But whos complaining?). I think Capcom should just cut this little friendly rivalry with SNK and get down to business.

Right now the KOF series is way more progressive than SF. And thats because SNK continues to experiment and change something about the fighting system every year, even if its a minor change their still putting something out.

Simply put: Street Fighter 4 should have Small jumps (Not UOH), Dashing and Running (Its possible to have both, look at Neogeo Battle Coliseum), LP+LK Rolling, Each character in SF4 (old or new) should have a total of 6-8 Special moves 1 new Super move would also be nice. And yes, it would be nice if you stold the idea of what a Dream Cancel is (Cancelling Special Moves into Super Moves). And next time make sure Yang’s Seiei Enbu is as good as Yun’s.

Simply put, do what ever it takes for 2D Fighters to stand out once again.

And aside from everything I said. A Street Fighter 4 that plays exactly like 3rd Strike isn’t necessarily a bad idea. If SF4 played exactly like 3rd Strike. The only thing that the game will need are the following:

New and Old Casts (I’d like to see Cammy again, with a new set of moves, and cloth, and fighting stance, an older looking Sakura and Karin with both of them having mastered their fighting style - Sakura basically becoming that character that just so happens to hold a good amount of traits of both Ryu and Ken). Karin learning much more deadly moves (similar to that of Geese).

Sagat, Balrog and Vega (claw) returning to the fighting scene with new cloth/fighting styles perhaps? Urien fighting in his tux would be nice rolls eyes.

It’d also be nice to have a better hip-hop sound track in the game than that of 3rd Strike. Many fanboys would rather listen to J-Rock/J-Pop soundtracks but its a fact that SF was ment for hip-hop beats.

EDIT: The one thing that can change the way someone plays the game is basically adding new characters as well. People will have to think twice, especially if those old/new characters have a unique set of moves.

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lol yeah a tutorial is definitely needed. When i was a noob starting out in street fighter, it was difficult cuase there were no basic tutorials so i didn’t know about buffering, traps, links, combos, unless i talk to other people who knew SF. but thanks to srk i got all these concepts and more down to improve my gameplay.

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Hahaha, how true to that. Ryu needs a bit more moves in his step that is original. Gouki created one of his own so far. Ryu needs to do the same. So much exposure to various styles(from SF1 to SF3) should give some inspiration. I believe that according to UDON, Sagat has moved on. Maybe UDON should team up with Capcom storywise.

As for the gameplay, defense wise should stop at parrying, yet revive the counter aspect. Should it be chainable?