Grappling is very practical martial art. Old school ufc pretty much proved it. Most bouncers grab a dude and throw them out.
Seriously dude practical could be a kick to the nuts.
Judo>>>>>fake ass aikido
lol maybe I should have been more clearer⌠I said you had to make contact with the opponent, grappling for me on the street is a no no thatâs why I said it should be part of ones arsenal. It goes without saying that keeping contact to a minimum (ie to box) is safer, quicker (in most cases) and energy saving, therefore more efficient.
As for Aikido vs Judo, my argument wasnât about which art could kick the most ass. I was looking at it purely from which one you could used to perform the job of a bouncer properly.
Being a bouncer doesnât not = old school UFC ground and pound the shit out of some guy that drank too much and got too frisky with a lady. But I will agree UFC has proven Judo fighterâs can kick a lot of butt.
Everybody telegraphs to some degree, far easier to notice watching it on video, hell I can watch Dempsey, Tyson and Ali fights and say the same thing. The demo is showing interceptions, only a few occasions will does he actually hold the opponent, this is the point I was making earlier about keeping contact to a minimum.
Good eye, one of the 3 corner stones of JKD is fencing. JKD use angles aswell, you will notice he intercepts then changes angle to follow up. Tommy teaches people all sorts or sizes and all sorts of experience, here he is with his wife, as with all demos there is always a lot one can speculate on.
lol@âfake ass akidoâ, itâs fake until you get your wrist broken. If you are going to talk about Judo you may as well talk about Ju Jitsu, since both Judo and Aikido come from it.
kick to the nuts=minimal contact
This is the nonsense I expect every time a thread like this happens. Itâs why the MMA thread is nice because it automatically puts the topics in the realm of a MMA competition. This real world crap is meaningless, especially when you cite UFC as an example.
Judo is very practical? I have a gun and am standing about 25 feet away. Explain to me how practical judo training is? Unless there is a part of judo I am unaware of that teaches "take cover, draw sidearm"
A knife is about the same thing. Weapon disarms are taught in various styles, but only in ones that are being taught for actual combat really spend time working on it. It can be done, but it isnât as easy as you would think. Regardless of the lock you put someone in, if they have the ability to pat you to signal submission, they have the ability to drive a sharp blade into that same area, several times. Submission is awesome, but not bleeding to death is even more awesome.
The things you say can be alright taken within the context of a sport.
Realize that most people donât do martial arts to compete in an event, and most styles are just as useless in a situation where someone is actually trying to hurt you. I donât think it fair to demean a style just because it doesnât play nice within your sport.
The best situation is almost always to run away. If you want to fight someone, you are going to hurt them and then there are legal troubles. If your life is really threatened, then either run or kill them, and be prepared to deal with the consequences. Running is still the better idea, but there are times when itâs impossible. If someone breaks into your home with a gun, well you can enjoy how useful you think judo is, and I will appreciate all the training and range time.
I am not attacking martial arts. They are great fun and exercise. I spent a good portion of my life doing sword work very seriously. I know it is silly and I will never end up âusingâ it, but I enjoy it. Attacking another martial art is a stupid thing to do, and itâs even more stupid to do for a reason like âitâs not practicalâ There are clearly martial arts that are strictly practical, and they are the ones being taught and used for combat (and yes some concepts (abstract or not) from other arts can ease the transition into that, but I donât think anyone want to sit and debate those things with me). Everything else is a bunch of silly arguments that donât need to happen.
umm⌠too many things wrong with your post, I canât even tell if youâre serious or trollingâŚ
if they got a knife, hereâs a self defense system thatâll help you. itâs called parkour
if youâre talking about straight up COMBAT where anything goes⌠then you might as well not even mention any martial art other than parkour I guess. itâs the only one I know of that can help you defend and flee. cause soon as you jaw the shit outta one dude, like 5 others are gonna jump up and help him⌠what you got then? and if youâre cornered by legions of dudes way bigger than you armed with knives, pistols, assault rifles, shotguns, rocket launchers, tanks, planes, boats, nuclear submarines, etc. then in your next life I suggest you either upgrade your weaponry and your numbers or learn how to not piss people off
btw, problem with your ârun awayâ argument: sometimes you canât. sometimes this nigga finds out where you live and heâs in your room with his arms on you. sometimes youâre in a corner. sometimes⌠this dude is a bitch and you donât want to be inconvenienced. itâs my own personal principle to ignore the advice of anyone who gives one solution to a problem with many factors in it
reason most people learn martial arts is to defend themselves from a single person or a small group of people who have no idea how to fight properly. itâs not to become the ultimate warrior. itâs not to have an answer to every situation. itâs to have an answer to most random bouts of violence, discourage it, and protect yourself and others. if youâre dealing with people who CAN fight properly, pull out weapons, seriously want to hurt you, can outrun you, etc⌠then youâre gonna need a lot more than a hand to hand system of fighting
edit: one last note on practicality. anyone on this planet can have you dead if they truly want you dead. and people, as long as weâve been living, have been choosing every reason under the sun for killing others. that basically means someone here on SRK can have you dead because they donât like the way you type your Es. thereâs not a whole lot you can do to stop a truly determined person. so if you want to pull out a random gun situation, then Iâll say the only practical way to defend yourself is to die
Alright, everyone go back to CoD and SF before things get out of hand.
itâs obvious most of you clowns have never been in a fight since you got your ass kicked in 2nd grade, so just shut the fuck up about what is isnât practical. cops and militaries around the world donât learn judo and sambo techniques bcuz theyâre not practical.
It was partially trolling, partially serious. I couldnât be completely serious because of how silly things have gotten.
I agree that you canât always run, thatâs why I mentioned the exact scenario that you mentioned. If you are in the unfortunate situation where someone is in your home, or you have nowhere to run, then you have to fight, with more than just hand to hand. I said pretty much exactly the same thing as your second paragraph says. That you canât always run and then you have to resort to a weapon, like a gun. I thought that was clear that the best idea is often to run, but you canât always.
And most people learn martial arts because itâs fun. The idea that you are learning a method of self defense is a real myth. Most times you arenât, and even the ones being touted as practical in this thread arenât preparing you for the reality of things. You give these valid scenarios in your first paragraph. You donât want to be in these scenarios. I do know these things. I have my concealed carry, I do carry, and attend training, and practice, and spend time at the range. It may seem really paranoid, as I probably donât need a lot of that knowledge, but it is also good physical and mental exercise, just like other martial arts. We are seriously saying a lot of the same stuff, so Iâm not sure what points you found so wrong in my post. If you want to clarify I would be glad to discuss them.
As for the last idea, yeah any dedicated intelligent person can kill anyone. Go get a nice rifle, learn to use it well over a few months. Learn how to pick a field and track, and things needed for any successful game hunter. Then go sit and wait and if I go outside put a round through my chest from further away than I can see clearly. Most people arenât going to go do that. Most people who think they are dangerous and make their lives with violence donât actually train. They donât plan, or practice. Kicking down a random door with a shotgun will probably work most times, but it doesnât always, and itâs a shitty situation for both parties when it doesnât. There is always the chance that some talented, intelligent, and well trained person will want to have me dead, and there is nothing I can do about it, but I can be prepared for dealing with the other 99% of the threats I am likely to face.
and here is another thoughtless argument I see popping up in reference to martial arts. âcops and military use it, that means it must be effectiveâ.
every organization around the globe has different goals. just cause one place is using it doesnât mean itâs practical; just cause this place isnât using it doesnât mean itâs not practical. when brazilian jiu jitsu sprang up out of nowhere, organizations all over have switched to it and started training in it. some ignored it. that should tell you the most important thing you need to know about practicality: no one knows everything
practicality has to do with whether or not the shit works. so Iâd suggest looking at the roots of an art if you wanna know if it works or not
alright, it sounded at first as if you didnât get the scope of the entire thing. youâre only saying that theyâre not preparing you for actual fighting. that Iâll whole-heartedly agree with. even taekwondo can be used in a serious ass fight, but youâd much rather learn bjj or be a solid block of muscle to maximize effectiveness
I mentioned this when I referenced that there were styles, designed for combat, that do deal with these things I was mentioning. Like you said, they are teaching some techniques from the styles, but they are not teaching the styles themselves. They have their own system, which is still evolving, that incorporates the good parts and ignores the other stuff, but I think you already know this.
I was simply saying that attacking some non combat art, from the perspective of another non combat art is a silly thing to be doing.
That part was taken from Wing Chun where the purpose is to break your opponents centre.
Thanks for giving me the biggest laugh of the afternoon. How did this suddenly go from martial arts to pulling out a gun on someone? Or do you think that everyone in the world walks around armed to the nines 24/7? If you think itâs not practical to disarm a knife, then you know very little about how effective martial arts can be. I really hope youâre trolling.
Most martial arts are intended this way because not everyone on the planet knows how to fight beyond throwing their fists towards the opponent. The chances of you actually fighting another martial artist randomly on the street are very very slim indeed.
in regards to that, you have to be close. and if youâre not close, you have to counterattack and get close⌠and you canât just grab the arm. thereâs methods of using a knife that make it really, really fucking hard to just disarm them. in fact, that battleâs so hopeless without superior skill or a proper guard that some people just take their shirt, jacket, etc. off and wrap that around their arm to have some sort of a shield
Youâre too much relying on the idea that the person you are up against knows a number of different ways to use a weapon. Youâve got to be kidding if you think some punk on the street trains how to use his knife beyond threatening someone with it and shanking them if they donât hand over their wallet. Step out of action movie land for a minute will you? Some people do that? Who? Donnie Fucking Yen, where itâs in the script and choreography?
Real life isnât fucking clan of the White Lotus where everyone marrauders around highly trained in weapons and death strike techniques. Live in the real world for 5 seconds.
I didnât mean fighting styles or anything, I meant simple technique. simple technique as in just a simple switch in how you do what you do, no skill required. some punk on the street might not know the best way to stab someone, but he could, for instance, know the proper way to keep his knife from you so that itâs foolish to attempt a disarm unless he attacks. and if heâs ever had a serious fight with a knife before, itâs highly likely heâd know about that
Really? So heâll train how to keep his knife away from a martial artist then will he? Iâm sure by that you mean he keeps it in his pocket and doesnât try and attack one then, because any attack takes the arm toward the victim and martial artists donât grab the hand or the weapon, itâs the arm or wrist and most of the time itâs not even a grab itâs a redirection which is really fucking easy. Do you have any idea what youâre talking about?
The direct reply was trolling, thatâs why it was silly. It was in response to the idea that judo was a practical combat art above others.
I also clearly said in my post that there are styles that teach disarming properly. I just donât think that they are common, and it isnât practiced as much as other things. How confident are you disarming a knife? What about if the knife is hidden before the fight starts? These are the things that, in my experience, take traditional martial artists by surprise. I also advocate that you not fight in that situation. The risk is too great. Also no I donât think the entire world is armed, but the bad part of it commonly is. Itâs why I say later, in the more serious part of my post, that it is better to avoid a fight, because itâs not worth the risk. You may feel confident disarming if some idiot pulls a knife on you, but you have a much greater chance to end up dead than the man who talks or runs and has a proper response as a backup.
lol throwing someone with force on pavement doesnât âworkâ? people who train to be efficient killers bothering to learn something isnât proof that itâs effective? sometimes i forget that youâre stupid.
No seriously though fuck thid topic. It is surreal how many of you donât know shit.
People always bring up the what if a guy has a knife or a gun. If you ever find yourself in that situation you may have been in the wrong part of town.
Seriously. Damn it. Omfg thanks for opening your mind.
To the dumbasses in fantasy land. Eat a steak, do some squats, and reallise martial arts you learned are great for exercise, but for all purposes they are just that.
Do not go picking fights because you know aikido and think you are steven segal.
Just know there is always someone out there who can kick your ass
Seriously fuck this topic. Old school ufc was a pit fight, with low blows, throat throttles, and gouging. Royce Gracie, Dan Severn, and ken shamrock pretty much neutralized most strikers woth their wrestling. Bas rutten learned grappling in order to make sure he was strong in all areas.
Guys like tank abbot fell to guys who could wrestle
hold the knife like this and the punk nerfs his own range. means heâll have to get close and connect to hurt you. and if heâs close you can take it from him even if he doesnât attack
hold it like this and the punk has more range and a faster strike. means that even if he misses heâs not getting disarmed very easily. and unless heâs extending his arm carelessly, that means you canât just take it from him. that is, UNLESS youâre just superior to him (ex. he stabs from max range, to you itâs slow like the matrix so you catch the arm, step in, and take it from him. Or⌠you donât even care if he attacks or not, you just rush in and knock him off balance, he falls, stomp on his hand so he lets go of the knife. or⌠you let him stab you on purpose). I edited my post after you quoted it, so you didnât see that portion about superiority.
this is just referring to the grip alone. thereâs lots of other helpful things you can pick up off the streets or whatever else that can help you. Iâm not saying these techniques will defeat martial arts, but they do erase simple errors. the less errors an attacker has, the harder a martial artistâs job is for him. in short, they make it so that itâs not a cake walk. and unless itâs a cake walk, thereâs the possibility of being stabbed⌠and with the possibility of being stabbed comes the possibility of being killed
btw, Iâm talking only about the way itâs held⌠not referring to the way the fingers align on the knife
I tried like 500 times to write a response to you while staying within the own bounds of your stupid misunderstanding, but I couldnât do it
Iâm saying:
just because cops and the military use a martial art doesnât mean "the martial art works!!!oneoneone"
just because cops and the military donât use it doesnât mean "the martial art doesnât work!!!oneoneone"
there is no such thing as âa martial art that doesnât workâ. what the fuck does that even mean? you wanna knock a nigga out, they ALL work. for example, whether weâre fighting in a dojo or on the streets, if someone fully connects a good 180 degree spin kick to your jaw youâre fucked⌠period. the issue is whether or not the art does its intended job easily
there is a difference between learning a martial art for sport/hobby/etc. and learning one for combat. just because you know the sport version of a martial art doesnât mean you canât hurt someone or defend yourself. just because you know the combat version doesnât mean there will never be a better system of combat that suits your purposes.
what I didnât say:
judo is ineffective and doesnât work
cops and the military have no idea what theyâre doing
bjj > judo
you want to know who train to be efficient killers? efficient killers. the military and the police are not âefficient killersâ; theyâre the military and the police. they have a variety of different goals, all of which Iâm pretty sure are NOT completely reliant on people being unarmed killing machines.
Multiple attackers
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[media=youtube]u7z5hpgbbR8[/media]
I love training this way, it really tests your technique. You can see here there no sign of any fancy techniques, contact is kept to a minimum, all that other stuff gets thrown out of the window. Boxing is the most efficient way to defend yourself unarmed IMO (anyone that does do martial arts for street defence needs to know ground fighting itâs essential), doing nothing but Judo makes zero sense.
Any of you that practice the grappling arts post some clips of drills or fights with multiple opponents. Iâve heard BJJ is a grappling art that can be used on multiple opponents but Iâve yet to see it.
I donât know why there is so much hate of Aikido, the art has some great footwork which is key (again my opinion) when dealing with street fights.
Hey I should apologize for that, thanks for taking the high road. I was a bit drunk when I posted that.
I agree âfootworkâ is key in any martial art sport/competition. Specifically where I trained Judo and Tae Kwon Do, everything starts with the foot work by using small adjustments to get a good target/advantage. Everything Iâve trained has a focus on foot work. Iâm not seeing the specific advantage of Aikido in this area when compared with other submission wrestling type martial arts, mostly because they include a competitive sport aspect, where Aikido never trains for competition. (I suppose in this day and age, an Aikido school might not exist as often as someone who has trained Aikido AND [insert martial arts], where by they may create a competitive aspect to classes)
ps Krav Maga is bad ass.