Do 1000Hz gaming keyboards make any difference in fighting games?

@Darksakul and @Moonchilde, why do you deem my observations about command buffering LOL-worthy?
I’ve experienced it myself: The smaller the buffer is, the quicker you have to input a motion for it to work. Older games with only one speed and diagonal-abusive DMs, like Global Champion/Kaiser Knuckle/Dan-Ku-Ga and the Fatal Fury series (after the first one) have a very small buffer and games who offer more than one speed suffer from this as well: The faster the speed, the quicker you have to input the motions.
If that wasn’t true, Raging Storm wouldn’t be easier to execute in KOF98UM and KOF2002UM and the 1-star speed in CvS2 wouldn’t be the best to do Guile and Claw’s diagonal-abusive DMs and even QCF-HCB DMs, for example.

You’re possibly thinking that anyone who’s into fighting games should know that, but I find it strange that neither you two nor anyone else in this thread did mention it.
Even @FreedomGundam, who said that the type of keyboard doesn’t matter in terms of ease of execution, didn’t say that what matters is the buffer the devs put into the motions during the making of the game.

I’m not mad at you, it’s just for curiosity indeed. If I’m saying anything wrong, please correct me.

I suggest you guys STOP flaming Calil_Bfr.
This issue plagued Windows 98, MS DOS and windows XP. The differences between the keyboard encoded/PS2/USB and arcade hardware made some special moves that worked great on arcade machines impossible to do on PC’s, even if the arcade ROMS and perfect emulation (Callus: Street fighter hyper fighting) were used.

The initial release version of Windows 7 was plagued by this initially, if I recall.
However, there must have been a USB Driver update of some sort that increased the buffering to allow moves like Zangief’s PPP/KKK to register perfectly, probably due to the explosion of console ports, and PC’s needing proper buffering for controllers (like the Xbox 360 controller). Previously, getting PPP/KKK to register on a keyboard (even with N key rollover) was impossible. But now, it works every time.

I emailed Andy Warne (ultimarc) and he suggested that it was probably a USB Driver update which caused this. Pretty logical, since the original way it worked wouldn’t fly at all for competitive play.
(edit: before anyone thinks I’m only referring to keyboards, I’m also referring to USB game controllers, Keyboard encoders in arcade controls (Ipac, and others), the official Xbox 360 controller, fightsticks using hacked pads or 360 PCB’s, and so on).

People always claim that I have no idea what I’m talking about.
It was me who helped get the old Atari Gauntlet games emulated, as I was friends with Eric Crabill (the man who first dumped the Gauntlet and Gauntlet 2 Roms), and I did a lot of beta testing for Neill Corlett’s Gauntlet emulator. It was me who first talked to Sardu (callus) about the problem with PPP/KKK not registering in his emulator (my complaints is why the 3 to 2 remap was put in), and he told me this was not an emulator problem, but was a PC issue. Mamedev discussed this some time ago, and they mentioned something about packet sizes being different due to how input worked on arcade boards and computer hardware (I don’t remember the details, but pretty sure it was something about packets and buffers). Mame experimented with adding a buffer through a command line option, but it caused too much input lag (it overshot the target) and made moves like fireballs and yoga flames too hard to do.

Andy wound up making a buffer update for the Ipac original (he shipped me a new IC) and ipac/32 (firmware update) which didn’t overdo it, but instead made it rather close to the arcade machine, while not being perfect, was extremely close, and didn’t affect input lag. Then at some time between then and now, windows updated and suddenly all USB devices, Xbox controllers, and even keyboards, were registering Zangief’s PPP/KKK without any extra help.

But whatever. people will always flame and troll and harass people on the internet. One thing I learned is that if you know you’re right about something and ignorant people who know far less than you do, start insulting you, put them on your ignore list and move on. Life’s too short to deal with toxicity and evil and saltiness.

Thanks for the support, @Falkentyne.

The diagonal-abusive DMs and circle motions are my biggest issues here.
I wish PPP/KKK were the only ones. At least an N-key rollover or 6-key rollover keyboard can fix this (as far as you said before).

The buffering went up only in the PC ports (SF4, KOF98UM, KOF2002UM) indeed.
Unfortunately, no emulator will ever be able to raise the buffers, since they have to be programmed into the game itself. The only thing emulators can do is making all of the DMs have easier commands by means of cheats (there are MAME and FBA cheat files who are able to do this in some games).

The buffering was actually increased in the USB driver itself. So it affects keyboard and game controllers.

I just (after making that last post), ran Callus (Sf2 hyper fighting) and played Zangief.
I was able to register PPP/KKK with my keyboard without any issues.
I then loaded up MAME and tried the same thing (using MameUIFX, which runs SF2 hyper fighting at the correct speed instead of the regular build which is far too fast).
No problems with Zangief PPP/KKK.

Also no problems with my Xbox 360 controller or the X360 fightsticks/Qanba, etc.

This did not work in windows XP and any older versions of windows or MS DOS.
I’m also rather sure it did not work in the release version of Windows 7 at all.

I’m not going to test the PS/2 port. I would have to open the controllers to switch them to PS/2 mode.

I believe you’re talking about with Street fighter 4 was some sort of assist mode for doing moves, making them easier-that’s completely different, and I understand you and I may be discussing different things, and that’s ok. For example, in SF4, Ryu/Ken Dragon punch could be done by holding Down+forward, down, down+forward, while riding the gate. This didn’t work in any other version of street fighter. The SF1/SF2 method was forward, down, down+forward.

I’ve never had problems with older games on older versions of Windows. In fact if i could go back to XP or even Win2k I would in a heart beat. I have more issues with newer OS like Win10 that’s running a bunch of background shit and stupid things like the Xbox overlay on classic games being emulated. Why the fuck does it do that??

The only reason I’m even bothering with the huge head aches Win10 puts me through is because of KI. The only reason I ever moved on to Win7 was because my audio interface drivers weren’t 100% compatible with XP x64 which I would have been happy to stay with until I moved on to Linux. The older versions of Win felt tighter and more responsive over Win7 and later. Most every ST player feels the same.

Do you have any tests and data? If would be interesting to read about and how it affects play. Is it a keyboard only thing because simultaneous button presses was never an issue and I did a ton of gaming on older versions of win.

If I missed anything I’m on my phone so let me know.

@calil_bfr only laughing because of your conclusion. You’ve had several people tell you gaming keyboard have high roll over which makes the difference between having enough inputs to pull off a move vs not having enough which most non-gaming keyboard lacks. That along with key bindings, layout, durability and build quality makes them superior.

How am I flaming Calil_Bfr?

I told him everything there is to know, answered all his questions and then some, I even pointed him to other experts on Geek Hack that more more about the nuances of keyboards than myself. Calil_Bfr declined to pursue them. Their is a old saying “you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink”. Well Calil_Bfr isn’t drinking, I done my part yet he wants to argue.

I only Clicked LOL not Disagree or Flag for Spam. Also at no time did I make an attempt to insult Calil_Bfr, trust me you know when I want to flame someone.
It be very obvious when I want to flame someone, so stop being the Social Justice Warrior @Falkentyne, don’t be a white knight here.

You aren’t a moderator. You NOT tell me what to do nor how to live my life. Do we have an understanding here, Mister? Take your SHIT elsewhere. IGNORED.

Whooooa, guys, don’t start a fight, please!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sF4MU1txTY

@Darksakul: I completely forgot to reply about your Geekhack advice, sorry for that. Some time after seeing your post, I made an account there and even found this thread, but it didn’t give me a conclusion about what I wanted to know.

@Moonchilde: As far as I understood, @FreedomGundam said rollover would make a difference only in simultaneous key presses, not in sequential inputs (like directional motions of moves). You even gave a Like to the post where he said it. My observations about buffering were because I found the explanation for that: It’s the command buffer, not the control device, that really determines how easily the moves that require directional inputs will come out. As for layout, durability and build quality, the second and third are the reasons why I’m still thinking of buying a gaming keyboard.

I actually do need to calm down a bit. I’m in the mood to physically murder someone right now. I’ve lost absolutely all faith in any honor and compassion and virtue in the human race, at the moment. I work my ass off helping people, giving my ass for whoever I can, giving my all in my games and my League of Legends and whatever I do and getting no respect, no gratitude, Nothing, nothing except insults, flaming, assholes talking shit and ungrateful passive aggressive and evil jerks who just want to take advantage and use people until they are bled dry and then thrown out as worthless. If I had an assault rifle, God knows what I would do with it right now.

Lord help me. I’m too old at age 44 to be dealing with this shit.

I know someone who understands you.

http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/7MBaJfLNkjw/mqdefault.jpg

Now seriously: Such a shame you have to deal with all that shitty stuff, man. May things be better for you ASAP.

@calil_bfr it does matter for sequential, too, because as others noted when you input keystrokes you will at some point end up with simultaneous inputs which is why you want a keyboard with high roll over.

That explains everything

This is your problem, easy to fix.

I used to play on a PS/2 keyboard (which, like all PS/2 keyboards, had N-key rollover) in my old Windows XP PC and I don’t remind the diagonal-abusive and circle motions being any easier to do. But maybe it was a ghosting issue, then.

Some days ago I found out Sanwa has square buttons for those who want to build a hitbox but want to keep the directions WASD-like.

Now I’m SO wanting to try something like @Aquashark 's hitbox:

http://basgrospoing.fr/images/sticks/keystick.jpg

Not true.

There are in existence PS/2 keyboards with a limited key roll.
Although the last of those PS/2 keyboards with limited roll over were stop being made long ago, these are limited to older and/or cheaply made PS/2 keyboards.
Also PS/2 Keyboards are expanded from the AT keyboards which they do use different connectors (Mini Din 6 vs a Din 5) are electrically compatible with each other

Hmm… Well, one more bit of hope.

Seems like the only way to remedy this doubt is to take the test myself. I’ll get an NKRO one or at least a 6KRO one (like the Cougar 450K I’m interested in). I’ll try to borrow one so the money won’t go to waste in case of failure to satisfy my needs.

yeah his troll game was working and had me fooled until I saw the one troll too far.