Larry, I apologize. I tell a lot of people that their arguments or ideas are weak/stupid/etc., but that doesn’t mean I think they themselves are weak or stupid. That’s what I meant here, but I shouldn’t have worded it that way, and for that I am sorry.
I wasn’t aware that your complaint was with characters in the same series. Thing is, characters are made into something completely different in other series as well. GGXX Accent Core changed a lot of characters at least as drastically as RB2 did, and previous installments were the same way. And since you mentioned HD Remix, look at how they’re trying to make Akuma into a legit tournament character, or all the things they did to Sagat.
Change ain’t a bad thing, yo. That was my main point.
So in short, screw this thread, and let’s get on 2df sometime! =)
Larry I think its just a new age I’m noticing because I heard the same bickering about GG Accent Core about how so many characters play wayyyyyyyyyyy differently than they did in such and such version…
:looney:
It’s something I guess we gotta get use to with characters getting butchered in the same series…
Yeah I like you find it hella strange… but I guess Accent Core started this new “change the character in the same series” revolution…which ironically it seems started with Real Bout 2…
Yea nerfing has always been apart of fighting games. I know that. I guess most of my favorite snk games are older versions of games. 2df was down all day yesterday! That really sucked for me because going back to ggpo isn’t bad, but I can’t connect with anyone most of the time on ggpo.
I may go I don’t know. My friend Judge_rl (he’s also on SRK) is suppose to be coming by to visit me here and I may hitch a ride with him there. When is Evo 2k8 by the way? I haven’t been keeping up on when it is…I been wanting to go for awhile now…
As far as playing RBS, man ya’ll would tear me a new one in that game. I haven’t been playing it lately; I just got up on Arcana Heart and Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure (and still playing KOF also). Like I said I need to jump back on it and get my practice on, and possibly when I play against you guys I can learn some new stuff as well!
I don’t mean to revive the nerf flamings, but I just wanted to put in my two cents.
I could understand the flaming discussion for other serieses like KOF, but with the RB series, each game was meant to be completely seperate. I mean, by the same logic I could say that RBS sucks because so many characters lost so much stuff from RB1. But the thing is, RB1 was meant to be a game where everyone had ridiculous overpowered stuff, RB2 was meant to be a relatively toned-down game, and RBS was meant to be what it is: somewhere in the middle. Would you have liked it if RB2 was just RBS with a few tweaks?
I think what I’m trying to say is that the RB series is fantastic because each game is a seperate entity, and each game by itself is fantastic. SNK has given us three games that cater to three distinctly seperate tastes, because they knew that people like different things, and because people like different things, sometimes it’s hella difficult to see eye-to-eye on things like this.
thats cause with each RB game they where trying to make it less gimmicky and more tournament worthy. which they achieved to a degree with RB2. also yeah, a lot of characters are far weaker and nerfed in RBS compared to their RB1 counterparts. a lot. mai might be the only one who improved in the transition.
But the problem is that there is only room for one RB game in the main tournament set. We already have KOF (XI, or 98, or 98UM when that comes out), NGBC (though this may die at the rate it’s going), Garou, and World Heroes Perfect. The Samsho collection is coming out later this year, so that’s going to have a similar debate with V Special vs. Tenka (and even 2 as a possible side game)
And different qualities in a game are not equal. Big combos are not as interesting as the spacing game. Heavily rewarding one style of play is not as interesting as rewarding many styles of play to some extent. And so on.
My point throughout this thread is that nerfing characters is sometimes a good thing - that is, when it increases the overall amount of strategy. Guilty Gear Slash did this, Samsho V Special did this (I’m sure Dark Geese is going to argue against this game, too), and RB2 did this. Some (again, SOME) of the characters are flat-out better in RB2 than in Special, and even a lot of the ones who aren’t have more depth to them.
exactly. every character feels different in 2. even the RB1 characters feel a lot more different than the RBS ones where most of the cast feels the same with the same basic combos. its even like this in 1 and 2, but not nearly as much as in S.
for KOF id suggest XI & 98UM.
for SS II & tenka.
also, whp at a tournament? shit isn’t exactly a tournament level fighter?
RB WAS BROKEN AND FUN. Terry would touch you and you die.:crybaby::xeye: And ringouts belong in a 3d game. Most characters could touch you and kill you in rb. Still fun and a great game. RBS is the tone down rb, but characters don’t suck or wasn’t changed into totally new characters in rbs. I feel that some characters in rb2 were nerfed so hard that they should have took them out of the series and added someone new. Atleast you wouldn’t have a waste of space for a character. But the gameplay of rbs is what most people hate about it and I understand that. There’s rooms for a lot of tournament games. I hate the wall system in rb and rbs. That’s a system/gameplay that I do like in rb2. No fucking wall system!!! Get people dizzy with combo’s not a fucking wall.
You said it I didn’t sir. I didn’t say that people!:xeye: Don’t flame me damnit!
SSVSP is a good game nothing to argue there… but also those games you mention Josh whats one thing thats a major con you hear from people about those games?? (SSVSP and GG Slash)
THEY ARE BORING AND DRY…
Thats the main critic of it…
So let me flip the equation on you Josh…perfect balance doesnt necessarily mean a good thing either all the time…
If thats the case Josh why dont you like Garou MOTW (or KOF98)?? Its got a fuckload in common with RB2… very well balanced…
Matter of fact Garou MOTW= RB2 with one line play +Just Defense, UOHs, Same Universal High counters…
A dry, boring feeling can creep in…which is what I feel unfortunately playing RB2…
And thats a problem I find with RB2…I personally find it boring and dry…
Mai surely doesnt have more depth in RB2 than in RBS…I can attest to that…
Also says who Josh big comboes are not as interesting as a spacing game? Remember you are speaking for yourself and yourself only so thats your opinion…(just saying)
As was said before…
RB2 favors turtling… (Not completely…Ghostpilot rushes down well, but RB2 favors turtling wayyyy more than RBS)
Good point… I respect what people like until they start dissing what I like and calling it “gimmicky” or what I like “gimmicky”…that shit makes me wanna money match someone and beat their ass to a pulp in the game to tell you the truth…
Josh- Also Josh about the “debate” between RBS and Rb2 for tournies…why is this a debate? I told you the solution…
if we have time RBS is getting run…hands down…I will break my back to run RBS if I got to…doesnt matter…
But RB2 will stay afloat in the main tournaments…
But…Larry’s in charge for FRXII…so what he says goes…
RB2 favors turtling… (Not completely…Ghostpilot rushes down well, but RBS favors turtling wayyyy more than RBS)
didn’t you mean rb2? Just asking. Nothing wrong with turtling imo. But I was playing arstal and he turtled me with mai. He feels like rb2 is more of an aggressive game than rbs. I told him he was turtling me not the other way around. The games he won against me he ran away and won by time. Nothing wrong with that imo, but he did the samething in ss2 also, but tried to say I was turtling him when his 1st move in both games is to dash backwards most of the time. :lol: :lol: That’s fine and I don’t care, but when I counter turtled him I won. It wasn’t because of line shifting. It was because he was sitting back and turtling with a rushdown character in mai.
The times when he did well against me was when he got me in the corner and pressured me. (“aka” attemp to rushdown) But he would stop being aggressive if I sidestep him. He was using the same pattern, so of course i’m going to sidestep and hit him when I see an openning. It’s just like a roll or dodge in kof imo. Yes it’s better than the roll, but that’s how I view the sidestep and that’s how I use the sidestep. I use it like kof95 dodge to the attack! I’m trying to attack him because I don’t want to make the game boring to watch or play. But if I keep running into attacks because someone won’t attack me unless it’s an projectile or ninjabee from half-full screen away i’m just going to chill also and see who can out poke who.
That’s why if you watch after a while I stop attacking him, because he wasn’t attacking me. It almost became the justin wong steve harrison watch each other match. :lol: The samething happend in ss2 before we played rbs. If he is just backdashing and fb’s or ninjabee’s from half or full screen yes i’m going to plane shift/side step that shit and bust you. You can’t spam shit in rbs. That’s the moral of rbs. If you try to spam anything more than 2 times in a row you will get killed for it with the sidestep/plane shift. Plane shift=anti spam great specials or normal attacks!
That’s also why I stop play ss2 against him, because he was using charlotte and dashing back and poking trying to out range me when i’m using gen-an. That’s a hard fight for gen-an because she has some of the best pokes in ss2. That’s the way you are suppose to play her in ss2 imo, but it got boring after awhile. Not to say ss2 is boring, but it was the same match with the same characters playing the same way over and over again. I would try to rushdown with the Gen-an slide and he would try to run away for the whole match an win on time each game. That’s fine with me, but that’s not ss2 being a turtle game. That’s more of the players choice to turtle instead of rushing down.
But he did the samething with mai in rbs when she is a rushdown character in rbs! I just think arstal likes to turtle. Nothing wrong with that because I turtle in alot of games. He doesn’t know how to play rbs, so he is doing what feels normal and confortable to him to give him the best chance to win. It’s all about the win baby and we had some gg’s in ss2 and rbs imo. He may not feel the same about our matches, but I enjoyed them a lot until it became the WE BOTH JUST SIT THERE battles! I did turtle him too, but I feel like I was the aggressor in most of our matches. He would only come after me when I was low on life for the most part.
He told me his Hon Fu is more aggressive on rb2 than on rbs, but ninjamatt told me that he tried to time out victory on him in rb2 also. So it seems to me that he likes to turtle and rb2 allows him to turtle more, thus he likes the game more. He says that it seems like it’s better to turtle to win in rbs, but he plays the same in the 2 games i’ve played him in and ninjamatt told me he did tried to time out victory him in rb2 also. If arstal or anyone prefer’s the attack range, speed of attacks, priority of normal and special moves, and line shifting/sidesteping in rb2 over rbs that’s fine. I think there’s room for both games.
Yeah I caught that error and corrected it…lol… yeah I feel Rb2 favors turtling moreso than RBS…
by far and away…
Nothing wrong with turtling to me either…not at all…everyone has to know when to be aggressive and when not to be…also in regards to style of play its all about personal preference…
Whatever gets the job done for you may not work for others…
But I dont like when someone trashes one style of play over another…
What gets the job done gets the job done…hell just because I dont turtle like Justin Wong doesnt mean I wont win tournaments…whatever gets the job done gets the job done…
P.S. If someone is gonna say RBS favors turtling more its probably (very likely IMO) because they dont know how to handle LINE SHIFTS!!! (I.E. its almost the same argument we’ve heard like a broken record as “Line Shifts ruin the game” )
This post was not meant to diss arstal playing style. It was just to point out how someone can say that one game is favors a turtle, but it may not be the game. It might just be the player who choose to turtle/play it safe to win and there’s nothing wrong with that. In the 2 games I played him in he turtled me in both for the most part (SS2 and rbs). IMO there are 2 types of turtles
Projectile turtlers=Players that hide behind projectiles and nick and pick at your life using projectiles to zone you. Your basic fb into dp trap is a form of turtle if you are sitting half or fullscreen distance away pelting your foes with projectiles not advancing unless they blocked or moved back to stay in the sweet spot.
Crouching turtle hidden dragon=sit there like a rock and react to every attack you do. This is what I call a ninja turtle. Steve harrison styles baby! Ducking FP if you jump at them and sweep if you get closer, but the foward arrow on the joystick must be broken because they are sitting in crouch or jumping backwards. I’ve been called a ninja turtle before and I don’t care. :lol: I’m an aggressive turtle now I guess.:xeye::xeye::xeye: Playing against deadlyraveneo has rub off on me as I want to get fancy and combo fools sometimes.:chat::xeye::xeye:
I swear DRN is trying to make a combo movie off of everyone he plays against.:xeye::cybot::china:
He doesn’t know how to play rbs, so he is doing what feels normal and confortable to him to give him the best chance to win. It’s all about the win baby and we had some gg’s in ss2 and rbs imo. He may not feel the same about our matches, but I enjoyed them a lot until it became the WE BOTH JUST SIT THERE battles! I did turtle him too, but I feel like I was the aggressor in most of our matches. He would only come after me when I was low on life for the most part.