Rofl @ complaining about physics in an airdash fighter
Forget physics, that was a really goofy argument. Let’s just put it like this: not universalizing fallspeeds while getting combo’d is unintuitive and gives the game artificial depth. It’s somewhat acceptable at this point when we only have 8 characters, and it seems like this is only really annoying for filia players. Painwheel’s combo is mostly fly canceled ground chains, which means not affected by fallspeed at all, which means those segments are universal. Nobody is complaining that they don’t have to learn this combo 3 times or that doing so would make the game deeper.
Every game has matchups and different character size. That’s obvious. I don’t want matchups to go away. But matchups are about spacing, thinking about your opponent’s tools, and your tools and how and when to use them. Having to do your combo 5% quicker on one character is not actual depth. It does not make the game any richer. The fix in this case seems extremely simple, universal fallspeed while in hitstun.
I’m fine with character specific combos as a result of hitbox size, because that is not an easy fix, and those are not just doing the same combo 5% faster or slower. Plus the big characters rarely stop your bnb from working, instead there are just extra options on them and they are ussually balanced around this.
Why is it, though? I hate that 
I bet even the upcoming Pony fighter is going to give each and every of them a millimeter difference in hurtbox size, leading to character specific combos~
Let me ask you something. Does having character specific combos make the game deeper, or more interesting? In a similar way, does having an input as 236236 instead of just 236 add anything to the game? I don’t think it does at all. Personally, I think people should try to cut away convolution from their games wherever they can. Learning 4 variations of a combo may not be hard, but it is unnecessary. As a general rule, I don’t like things that are unnecessary but as I’ve already explained, if it’s logical/makes sense. The concept of having characters that fall at different speeds in a fighting game satisfies neither of these conditions, ergo I don’t like it.
ALSO I CAN TALK IN CAPS TOO
It does to me.
Holy Jesus, I have to actually account for my opponent’s own set of parameters instead of just my own.
Maybe I’m totally used to this because I used to play a lot of Smash Bros., where fall speeds played a massive part of the game, but this isn’t a new concept to fighting games. It promotes doing combos on the fly instead of just grinding them out in training mode and then unloading them in macro mode in the middle of a game. It also makes it so that Happy Birthdays aren’t braindead easy.
Yes.
Care to elaborate?
Makes it harder to use said move as a punish - serving both as hypecreator (if its done) and allowing for more “mistakes” - if whiffing a normal is guaranteed to make you eat 500 damage, you stop playing footsies. Increasing the skill ceiling is not always a bad thing.
Imagine SF4 was a 7 button game, 1 button instantly activates Ultra (instead of 236236PPP) - would this have been half as impressive?
I don’t play Street Fighter, so I can’t really appreciate that video as much as I should but I get your point anyway.
Also 236236 takes a longer minimum to time input.
That’s a bad argument to say controls shouldn’t be intuitive because SF4 with one button super would be stupid. SF4 with one button super would be stupid because the game is balanced around the fact that supers take time to input, not because hitting one button is easy. In some cases 2qcf supers help prevent overlapping commands. So double qcf commands are just fine. But controls are not the topic here. I don’t even know why I write up all these points if you people are just going to ignore posts about the actual topic and talk about something else.
I really don’t see how it encourages creating combos on the fly. You still have to grind it out in training mode and then just replay it, except now it’s x4. Or am I missing something? And personally, I prefer Happy Birthdays to be braindead easy. Not because I’m lazy, but because if you get caught in a Happy Birthday, it should really hurt IMO. That was the entire reason for their inclusion, no?
As for the 236236 thing, I wasn’t really talking about Street Fighter specifically, but more in general. Perhaps it was a bad example.
Grind what out? There are players that know how to hit-confirm from nearly anything and make up combos as they go along (Combofiend, Clockwork, Poongko [in SFIV for fucks sake], etc.) This kind of system wouldn’t faze them at all, but would faze lesser players.
And yeah, they should hurt, but only if you’re willing to put the work into it to make it work rather than killing two characters for little to no effort.
if you have a reset that only works against cerebella, that adds depth to the game. there are people who will play cerebella and will experience that reset, and there are people who don’t and thus that matchup will not be affected by that particular reset. other characters may have resets and tactics that are character-specific (i.e. a jump-in that normally can’t combo but hits really really deep against only double due to her unusual crouching hitbox), and each of those adds more depth to each of those individual matchups.
i do agree with you that character-specific combos do not really add much to the game, combos are essentially just tests of execution for one player and they do very little for a matchup’s complexity. however, resets are interesting as they require both players to respond and think on the fly, and it is merely unfortunate that you cannot have character-specific resets without character-specific baggage combos
What do you mean what? I was essentially just rewording what you were saying. In a fighting game without character specific combos, you have to practice your combo and then perform it in matches. In a game with character specific combos, you have to practice your combo and then perform it in matches, except you need to practice 4 combos instead of one.
Making combos on the fly is great. It’s a test to see just how well you know your characters. In MvC3, with Zero if I don’t have a fully charged buster by the time that I need it, or I get an awkward confirm I have to improvise, and when I do it successfully it’s fun and rewarding. But what does it have to do with character specific combos? I missed that connection.
I’ve never actually gotten a happy birthday in Skull Girls (which I can blame on not playing very often), so I don’t really know how easy or hard it is to do happy birthdays combos in it. Regardless, it is my belief that happy birthday combos should be possible with relatively minor tweaks to the combo (maybe about 75%-80% of the length/complexity of the original combo). Is that how it is in Skull Girls? I have no idea.
In a game with character-specific combos, you only need like…two different combos. Three if you’re Filia. And and only one BNB with an understanding of your character’s links if you can make shit up on the fly.
And Skullgirls Happy Birthdays are best done with ground combos, Painwheel’s fly combos are freaking devastating in a party situation.
…just want to throw this out there. It is possible for things of different sizes or even equal sizes to fall at different rates. It’s a little thing called terminal velocity; i.e. when force due to drag(deals with surface area and speed) equals force due to gravity. So heavier things can accelerate to a higher speed before drag causes them to stop accelerating (the weight increases the force not the acceleration and as the speed increases so does drag force). Most physics problems ignore this since its negligible at lower speeds, but its there. If your problem is the weights not complying with physics, then just consider it augmented/exaggerated physics…and ignore air dashing… and air combos(ignores much of momentum based theories)…and double jumping(though technically it is probably possible if you can kick hard enough and create enough drag to not only stop downward acceleration but reverse it enough to actually go back up…and that’s why Sanji can run on air)
is this a kappa moment? I always wanted to do that, but I dont know why its used really.
Every character accelerates as they fall and doesn’t stop doing so until they touch the ground, so terminal velocity can’t really be a factor.
Just pretend the heavy characters are more aerodynamic.
Fall speed(the thread topic) and acceleration are two different things. Like I said, just consider it exaggerated physics.