DIE ALREADY! The Jill Valentine Combo/Strategy Thread

[Yeah_Dood_120]

^Every single damn post you make is helpful. For me, doing MB combos is just about going about them in a rhythmic fashion. Once you get the proper rhythm down, you can do em even in lag. For some, like Paulo’s AK Mad Beast combo, it’s great to visualize the motions Jill’s going to make while you do it.

I agree 100% with not only this; but many combos and other things as well. People only have the mentality that something is hard/unpractical which prevents them from pulling it off.

Totally agree with you on getting the rhythm and it’s benefits. Years ago back in my 3rd Strike days, I had every super in the game’s parry rhythm down and it wasn’t hard to parry every attack in the game. My method for learning them… :xeye: I trained against parrying like it was Dance Dance Revolution lol. I based my parrying on what it sounded like to parry rather then looking at it. I do the same now with my combos in UMvC. I go into training mode, close my eyes and do the combos based on how they’re suppose to sound. For me, it gets my timing and muscle memory down a lot more better, but that’s just me.

But yeah, as you also mention, a persons mentality can either hinder or advance their progress. This is true, not only in fighting games, but in life situations. If you go in knowing you’re going to fail, chances are you’ll fail. No matter what the circumstances might be, one should be of the mind to win… dood!

[NonSexualRice]

Totally agree with you on getting the rhythm and it’s benefits. Years ago back in my 3rd Strike days, I had every super in the game’s parry rhythm down and it wasn’t hard to parry every attack in the game. My method for learning them… :xeye: I trained against parrying like it was Dance Dance Revolution lol. I based my parrying on what it sounded like to parry rather then looking at it. I do the same now with my combos in UMvC. I go into training mode, close my eyes and do the combos based on how they’re suppose to sound. For me, it gets my timing and muscle memory down a lot more better, but that’s just me.

But yeah, as you also mention, a persons mentality can either hinder or advance their progress. This is true, not only in fighting games, but in life situations. If you go in knowing you’re going to fail, chances are you’ll fail. No matter what the circumstances might be, one should be of the mind to win… dood!

Confidence is key definitely! Good stuff again man.

I’ve been having some trouble with arrow kick after roundhouse kick. Do you have to hit them with the arrow kick right before they hit the ground like gangie just mentioned? Or is there some other timing I need to take into consideration because something is wrong with when im using it.

I tried to read up on this because I remembered someone asking the same question, but its so hard to find specific information on these threads. The combo/strategy thread sometimes talks about team comps and the team comp thread talks about combos lol

Since you mentioned it, I thought it would be a bit more organize to put this post here then. To pull off the arrow kick after roundhouse there’s no real set method from corner or full screen. Ideally in the corner, if you want to go for a jump loop afterward, you want to hit them with arrow kick at the maximum height of the original wall-bounce. Full Screen, after your FD you want to try to hit the back of the character’s hitbox. It’s truly not as difficult as it seems.

[AdmiralParmesan]

Thanks again nsr. You gangie and dood are always so helpful. It makes me sad that the trish borads are so much more dead then this, then again she only has about two combo variations lol

[Gangie]

I was playing around with different ways to react to pushblocks and came up with a couple notes while trying to stay in that ass:

-If you or the defender are close enough to the corner during the pushblock, feral dashing forward will cross up and up-forward will reach

-Unless the defender chicken-blocks or your attack is pushblocked from longer spacing, feral dash forward will put you right back up in their face

-Almost trivial, but Arrow Kick’s forward movement negates some of the distance after the hit is pushblocked. It’s enough that a delayed stance-cancel for a forward feral dash will cross up, though. Even the slightest delay will work.

I’m looking forward to some more matches where I can put this into practice, particularly the second point since I hope to be able react with the command grab to cancel the dash.

Speaking of Position Exchange, I was playing a lot with that, and I think it has multiple active frames. Hopefully, someone with frame data can clarify that for me because that sounds like a dangerous response to enemy wake-up. I’ve also been able to put together a few combos from it for y’all.

This one is special for me since it omits a wallbounce, meaning Frank can get to level 4 with the right MGS DHC (514k):

:dp::h:, :l:, :h:, :d::d::s:, Somersault, :uf:, j:h:, j:s:, st:h:, :d::d::s:, Somersault, j:h:, j:s:, st:h:, :h:, :qcf:, Somersault, :qcf::atk::atk:

This was the most damaging one I could smith that works from anywhere (533k):

:dp::h:, :l:, :h:, :d::d::s:, Somersault, :uf:, j:h:, j:s:, st:h:, :d::d::s:, Somersault, :d::d::s:, Roundhouse, :d::d::s:, dash forward, :d::d::s:, Somersault, :qcf::uf:, Somersault, :qcf::atk::atk:

One more that only works in the corner (meaning you were in the corner when it started). A variation of Paulo’s combo (547k):

:dp::h:, :l:, :h:, :d::d::s:, Somersault, :d::d::s:, Somersault, :d::d::s:, Roundhouse, :qcf::h:, j:h:, j:s:, st:h:, :h:, :qcf:, :d::d::s:, dash forward, :d::d::s:, Somersault, :qcf::atk::atk:

If you’re having trouble hitting with j:h: after the first Somersault, it’s because you have to hit them sooner than you’re used to. Just delay the following j:s: a bit and you’ll be fine on hitstun. Of course, you can always feral dash to steal the corner after the Cartwheel so that Somersault+MGS gets the full damage

If anyone has a better damage combo from Position Exchange, I’d be ecstatic to see it. This is untapped potential here.

PS: If anyone would rather I notate the combos in a different or slightly altered way, do tell. I’ll be constructing a new combo thread, after all.

[AdmiralParmesan]

I had a few questions as well to anyone who can answer them since my execution is pretty meh.

I noticed that you can’t call assists during feral stance, nor can you during feral M and feral H. But you can during feral L and feral dash so…

Would something like this be possible perhaps? I am trying it now, but my double feral somersault cancels are a bit sloppy still. This is with strider vajra assist

H,4H,22S***,***Somersault,22S,Somersault,22S,M,22S (feral dash),Somersault, 22S, Feral L (whiff) Call strider, 22S (to cancel L animation), Somersault, 22S (Vajra hits), Somersault, TK cartwheel, Somersault MGS

Also can the double somersault opener (like above) be done off of any opener? It seems when I do it sometimes the second Somersault or Feral M afterwards won’t connect right or will be out of range, but im not comfortable with the timing yet, so its probably me. Does somersault make the opponent float differently based on when you feral cancel it?

[NonSexualRice]

I had a few questions as well to anyone who can answer them since my execution is pretty meh.

I noticed that you can’t call assists during feral stance, nor can you during feral M and feral H. But you can during feral L and feral dash so…

Would something like this be possible perhaps? I am trying it now, but my double feral somersault cancels are a bit sloppy still. This is with strider vajra assist

H,4H,22S***,***Somersault,22S,Somersault,22S,M,22S (feral dash),Somersault, 22S, Feral L (whiff) Call strider, 22S (to cancel L animation), Somersault, 22S (Vajra hits), Somersault, TK cartwheel, Somersault MGS

No clue, but I doubt it since I don’t think you’ll have enough time to whiff a 22S L (10 Frames+L whiff frames+ extra frames to cancel–> Call assist+Somersault) takes many frames. Maybe it can, but I could only see this working if your opponent is already at jump height (where the maximum amount of somersaults can be connected to each other) or if you’re canceling each somersault before the 9th frame.

The hell do I know though, my xbox has AIDS.

Also can the double somersault opener (like above) be done off of any opener?

Double Somersault connects on many openers, as long as you omit her c.H.

It seems when I do it sometimes the second Somersault or Feral M afterwards won’t connect right or will be out of range, but im not comfortable with the timing yet, so its probably me. Does somersault make the opponent float differently based on when you feral cancel it?
[/quote]

I think I mentioned that you can TK a move in FC then use one of her specials and call an assist on the first frame a page or two back. It’s incredibly difficult but possible. Here’s the quote

Now I think I mentioned to you guys That I had some hard ass jill technology that’s going to benefit her, but like said, it’s hard. We all know you can TK Jill’s Somersaults with any of her other moves; her best being Ensnarement for combos. Now during this period, you can call an assist and continue your combo.**Here’s the tricky part, to do this you MUST be in Feral Crouch already which means that this requires a bit of dexterity. **Now if we combine this with some stupid Assist (LIKE DOOM’S MISSLES), we get some stupid ass damage. Let’s look at an application of this technique along with Sent’s assist.

[Gangie]

I think I mentioned that you can TK a move in FC then use one of her specials and call an assist on the first frame a page or two back.

That would explain why I was only ever able to do it once in ten minutes of trying to do it.

I noticed that you can’t call assists during feral stance, nor can you during feral M and feral H. But you can during feral L and feral dash so…

Would something like this be possible perhaps? I am trying it now, but my double feral somersault cancels are a bit sloppy still. This is withronaldvajinaassist

H,4H,22S***,***Somersault,22S,Somersault,22S,M,22S (feral dash),Somersault, 22S, Feral L (whiff) Callronald, 22S (to cancel L animation), Somersault, 22S (Vajina hits), Somersault, TK cartwheel, Somersault MGS

I just tried it out, and it’s unfortunately not happening. It takes way too long to do two stance cancels to connect a second Somersault. It’s really too bad, too, because I thought that was some really cool tech.

It seems when I do it sometimes the second Somersault or Feral M afterwards won’t connect right or will be out of range, but im not comfortable with the timing yet, so its probably me. Does somersault make the opponent float differently based on when you feral cancel it?

No, that doesn’t happen. There is so much hitlag on Somersault to help you cancel it that you’re likely canceling it on the same frame every time anyway. If your second Somersault is missing, then it’s probably distance, height or character dependent. I’ve only seen double Somersault executed at point blank range, honestly.

As for Jumping Roundhouse, I’ve also noticed it’s a bit finicky sometimes. I think its hitbox actually starts higher and then drops in height as it comes out because when I was doing Dood’s Somersault confirm combo (712k), it simply wouldn’t work if I delayed the hits to keep the victim as close to the ground as possible like I was used to doing. Some really good advice Dood also gave is that you can hold any of the attack buttons as you’re going into stance, and that will make the corresponding move come out as soon as possible. Maybe you’re delaying the roundhouse too much?

Somersault, :uf:, j:h:, j:s:, cr:h:, :h:, :qcf::l:, Somersault, :d::d::s:, Roundhouse, :d::d::s:, dash forward, :d::d::s:, Somersault, :qcf::uf:, Somersault, :qcf::atk::atk:
(the corner can be stolen with :d::d::s: dash forward after :qcf::uf: for maximum damage)

[NonSexualRice]

The range on the Dual Somersault is actually pretty big. It works from the same distance as her normal hitconfirms, iirc. Also, yes, both of her wall-bounces have alot of really weird properties and are a bit finnicky. Her Jumping roundhouse is actually only an attempted wallbounce , which you can use for many 50/50’s and stuff of the like.

Anyone attempted true Guard-breaks with Jill yet? I mean we all know that she can open you open extremely easily, but guard-breaks are a lesser-known and extremely frightening tool. As of now, only few characters have them (Zero, C.Vipes, Thor as I know of).

[Gangie]

Anyone attempted true Guard-breaks with Jill yet? I mean we all know that she can open you open extremely easily, but guard-breaks are a lesser-known and extremely frightening tool. As of now, only few characters have them (Zero, C.Vipes, The Mighty Thoras I know of).

I’ve tried, but can’t come up with any. All the guard breaks seem to involve a hitbox on a projectile that continues to exist even when you have full control of the character. Incoming mixups are really fun, though, just spooking them by sitting there in feral stance while they process the dozens of different ways she can approach the situation. I’m looking at Cartwheel as one of her potentially great incoming mixup starters since it has good height, hangs around for a long time, can be canceled during that entire time, and likes to cross under against airborne opponents sometimes.

[NonSexualRice]

I’ve tried, but can’t come up with any. All the guard breaks seem to involve a hitbox on a projectile that continues to exist even when you have full control of the character. Incoming mixups are really fun, though, just spooking them by sitting there in feral stance while they process the dozens of different ways she can approach the situation. I’m looking at Cartwheel as one of her potentially great incoming mixup starters since it has good height, hangs around for a long time, can be canceled during that entire time, and likes to cross under against airborne opponents sometimes.

Along with lasting-projectiles, a common factor with Guard breaks lies within A flight meaty, j.S–> Grab first frame (Mags, storms). I was thinking, maybe something with madbeast w/ a Meaty j.S–> forward grab, which uses two of her three movements.

Just a little thought to ponder.

Also, some good news that I forgot to post. Although my Xbox got the RROD, through some miracle it was able to turn on and work pretty fine. If you guys need me to test anything or anything like that, I’m back in business.

[paulow3b]

Some stuff I recorded a time ago. I guess this video is more about strategy and combo, so I posted it here.

[media=youtube]we7YU_jE1Io[/media]

[Gangie]

Some stuff I recorded a time ago. I guess this video is more about strategy and combo, so I posted it here.

[media=youtube]we7YU_jE1Io[/media]

The new sticky thread is pretty much an all-purpose replacement for this one.
Your video reminds me that I should make a team-specific combo section, though.

[paulow3b]

The new sticky thread is pretty much an all-purpose replacement for this one.
Your video reminds me that I should make a team-specific combo section, though.

Ok, I’ll post it there. Thanks.

[AdmiralParmesan]

<font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>So I was watching this about dashing and jumping at the same time to increase your jump distance.</span></font><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”><br></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>http://shoryuken.com/2013/03/02/how-to-hit-box-umvc3-just-frame-dash-jump-tutorial/</span></font><br></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Anyway the same concept works with jill. What I was working on was dash jumping out of feral dash since you can plink dash out of feral dashes. I can’t tell if it keeps any of the momentum from the feral dash but it basically puts you in range for jH or jS from full screen pretty quickly. I was using it online a little and it seemed to be catching people off-guard. Sorry if this was already known lol</span></font></div>

[NonSexualRice]

Haven’t posted here in awhile.  <div><br></div><div>Quick update, I found a way to reach high 700K—>800K with Jill/Strange, but the combo damage highly varies on weight.  On Sentinel, it does close to 900K. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/55819/AdmiralParmesan">AdmiralParmesan</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>So I was watching this about dashing and jumping at the same time to increase your jump distance.</span></font><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”><br></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>http://shoryuken.com/2013/03/02/how-to-hit-box-umvc3-just-frame-dash-jump-tutorial/</span></font><br></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Anyway the same concept works with jill. What I was working on was dash jumping out of feral dash since you can plink dash out of feral dashes. I can’t tell if it keeps any of the momentum from the feral dash but it basically puts you in range for jH or jS from full screen pretty quickly. I was using it online a little and it seemed to be catching people off-guard. Sorry if this was already known lol</span></font></div></div>
</blockquote>

I knew that tech was around, but I never thought to apply it to Jill valentine! Mind posting a quick vid of utilizing it? I’m on my way to work so I can’t test it for myself. 

[Gangie]

I admit, I’d be posting in here more frequently if the lack of notation emotes didn’t just completely discourage me from doing so.

EDIT: Actually I wouldn’t because this is the old thread.

[Gazelle_Excess]

after i double cartwheel to force the opponent into a roll i do an 6H into her jump loop but the opponent always falls out even though the combo is being reset…maybe im just messing up but i never drop her jump loops and i just cant seem to get this to confirm. I feel like double cartwheel throws so many people off and being to confirm the overhead into her jump loop would really help on come higher health characters. Thanks in advance guys. Also her MGS into DHC frank cart into a picture only works in the left hand corner…so weird.

[Gazelle_Excess]

side note: ive been messing around with jill/frank/doom
I dont know if anyone already does this or knows of it just thought it place it in case someone plans on running derpy mr.doom haha

if you do jills cr.M-cr.H-S-j.H-M knee drop you can hard tag doom st.H-j.M(2 hits)-j.M(2 hits)-6H-S-st.H-j.M(2 hits)-j.M(2hits)-6H xx finger lasers DHC whiff into frank and get a snap shot=level 4.

on the 3rd/4th wave of the finger lasers DHC into frank for a hard knockdown. anymore and any less will not make it a hard knockdown. This works in the corner. BUT I have done this twice midscreen. If you hard tag doom without him hitting them from the tag in only do 1 rep of dooms jM jM.

the damage on it is really good ill post up later when i get home. If anyone wants a video just let me know ill post one.

[Gazelle_Excess]

^builds about 0.9-1 meter depending on how many hits you can comfortably do with doom also so i you have like 1.1-1.2 meter you good to finish the combo.

[Gangie]

after i double cartwheel to force the opponent into a roll i do an 6H into her jump loop but the opponent always falls out even though the combo is being reset…maybe im just messing up but i never drop her jump loops and i just cant seem to get this to confirm. I feel like double cartwheel throws so many people off and being to confirm the overhead into her jump loop would really help on come higher health characters. Thanks in advance guys. Also her MGS into DHC frank cart into a picture only works in the left hand corner…so weird.

-When are they falling out after 6H, exactly?

-MGS > Shopping Cart DHC works to get the picture in both corners, you just have to steal the corner with a feral dash before the Somersault. You don’t have to in the left side corner, but you’ll still get less damage if you don’t.

-The edit button on the new stupid forum layout is in the top right of your post along the gray banner with your time stamp, and is invisible until you hover over it for some reason. I can see how you may have missed it, but try to refrain from double or heaven forbid triple posting.

-I have no idea why this thread is sticky again since the original post is now largely irrelevant and outdated. Please use the new one. Maybe the button notation emotes will be fixed in the near future.