DIE ALREADY! The Jill Valentine Combo/Strategy Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
701

I was playing with tiger knee’d cartwheel from somersault some more, looking for applications, and finally found a good one.

If you somersault form maximum range, you can’t pursue with jump loops, forcing you to either MGS; dash over for M, H, (maybe 4H), cartwheel, somersault MGS; or just miss. I’ve been trying to get a flip kick in there to FC to cartwheel, but the crossing under is so finicky that I can’t get it to happen. Positioning can be random and sporadic and can screw you over with such cross-unders and bad placement.

TK cartwheel will reach the victim even from somersault’s maximum range, after which you can do whatever. I came up with two easy, reliable, good-damage combos, but I’m sure someone else can do better:

Somersault, TK Cartwheel, FC, Feral M, FC, feral dash forward if necessary, somersault, MGS ----- (546k)
Somersault, TK Cartwheel, FC, Somersault, jump forward, j.H j.S, jump straight up, j.M j.M j.H j.S, H, 2H, Cartwheel, Raven Spike ----- (566k)

Much better than the 356k from a regular somersault to MGS, at least.

EDIT: Disregard all of that. I immediately afterward spent time looking for an alternate method for dealing with that very problem and found Feral M to be the all-around superior choice to TK Cartwheel. It’s faster, more damaging, builds better meter, and is most importantly much easier to perform on reaction.

702

I touched upon many different applications of Feral TK’s in my guide :tup:

Feral TK’s make combos that wouldn’t normally hit due to being out of range, hit.

703

The guide on GameFAQ’s? I need to read that over a few more times, I think.

704

Indeed. Another reason why Feral TK’s are so good is because you get the Feral Dash, and the move afterward on the first possible frame.

705

with jills late in combos would her St.M combo st.H saw after an extended feral m> arrowkick combo? I ask this because it seems the range on this move is godlike and would stop those awkward drops when opponents are at different heights since H and 4H seem to hit much lower

706

wow

707

@Nonsexualrice and paulob, and/or anyone who knows their jill stuff

Can anyone tell if jills feral crouch uncancels are actually 2 different motions its seems S by itself makes her leave the mode but i remember reading somewhere that down, down + S also works im wondering is one actually faster or is the down, down +S a fraud motion where its really just pressing S.lol.

Secondly with paulo’s bnb:

[media=youtube]x8J2DCfWw_s[/media]

Im wondering even though its late in the combo could this be extended by jump cancelling the summersault into her Ensnarement (DP+M)? im thinking this for damage sake and extensions. doing summersault jump cancel ensnarement doesnt work outside of the corner because the opponent usually goes too high up in the air or out of range buuut moving jill to the corner+the feral jump cancel should extend the range enough that it can connect.

If this doesnt work could paulo confirm if jill can do dash behind M,H xx ensnarement then followup ensnarement with M,H xx flipkick xx super instead of Summersault xx mgs (or a version with 4+H for extra dmg)

that would clear this question of mine up

708

I’m about to go to work so i can only answer the first half of your question.

Both S and down down S to Get out of the feral crouch are the same. I use Down Down S to get out due to pure comfort-ability of doing it.

709

Even so late in the combo, you can TK Ensnarement M out of that last somersault, but it won’t get you much. The hitstun is so degraded by then that they’ll flip out of the combo after you hit them with M on their way down from Ensnarement M. You could do Ensnarement M into S, j.H j.S, Ensnarement L for 616k off of no meter on some (most?) characters, though.

Your other proposed combo doesn’t work either, again because of hitstun degradation. M will hit and H will be too late.

I hope I answered your question thoroughly enough and didn’t misinterpret it at all.

710

^ Gangie hit the nail on the head :slight_smile:

You have to factor in Hitstun scaling within your combos, many of here normals generate hefty amounts of hitstun.

Anyway, I had enough time to mess with a couple extra things today.
1)My team allows Frank to reach level 4 off a Jill DHC or Strider DHC–> Knee Drop, call jill, snap snap. Arrow kick puts them in a perfect position to FFC Them for an unblockable (Arrow kick positions them that if they forward tech, they will not forward tech over Frank due to model overlapping).

2)Like With Paulo’s BNB, no matter if I used my wall bounce or not, I can combo off of a Jill+Frank THC with a Somersault.22S,M, Arrow Kick,j.HS, s.H,4H,Cart… For abit more damage.

  1. I’m on the verge of creating a Mad Beast TAC infinite, but it’s pretty damn difficult, but I feel I’m close to it. Also going to see if I can work on her Large-Character only infinite and make it work for every character.
711

I was actually running a very similar experiment last night after adding one last hit to Jill’s combo using TK Cartwheel to ensure I’ll get to Level 4 off of a somersault. I had been using knee drop after Arrow Kick assist to get in that extra hit and make the timing easier for the second snapshot, but it kept me from getting that FFC reset I wanted. Now I might not have to, and you’ve once again done almost all of the work for me to ensure it will work. =D

EDIT: Pickles. It’s just not happening with front air techs for me. They go right over and behind me, making me completely miss every time. I’m still working out the timing for the two pictures so that the second catches them high enough in the air for them to air tech; it’s really hard. I’ll put it on the backburner for now and go back to teaching myself ambiguity with cartwheel 50/50’s.

712

[LIST]
[*]Try plink Dashing back once and taking the pic then. I tried it on different characters today and it only seems works as a gaurantee unblockable on those with larger hitboxes without the plink dash back once.
[/LIST]

Some new tech/Contest for you folks. First, the new tech/info.

I realized today that Jill’s damage primarily comes from her somersault, arrow kick, and 22S M, something that we all have known for awhile. Today, I was testing how many somersaults I could do in a combo, and something odd happened after I MGSed. Off a PURE somersault only with 1 22S M wall bounce in, I got 680K. Which was significantly Higher then if I did a proper opener.

Off Some more testing, I devised a slightly modified version of Paulo’s BNB which does slightly more damage, of course assistless. This one is a bit easier to go into if you caught your opponent with a Somersault. Also, this one has a quirk that makes it ALOT stronger then Paulo’s originally BNB.

Somersault,22S,Somersault,22S,Somersault,22S,M,Arrow Kick,j.HS,s.H,4H,Cartwheel,22S,Somersault,MGS- 728K. This, by itself was only with about 4 minutes of trial and error and keeps scaling extremely low (much lower then the original BNB) thus allowing you to extend it with a variety of options instead of simply ending it with MGS.

Here’s another random tidbit I noticed while playing with Jill today. You can do j.HS AND her DKD L and continue a combo. Make sure you keep it a bit shorter and start with H though! (no clue if this was common knowledge or not)

Now for the contest.

**Counting The Sprinkles in Your ’ Somer

** s

I’m challenging all of you Jill players to fit as MANY Somersaults into one combo as you can. However, there’s a catch, infact MANY catches that you have to abide by.
[LIST]
[]Must start the combo with Somersault
[]You are allowed 1 assist.
[]You are allowed 2 Moves that are not somersault (excluding Feral Crouch and Feral Dash) in your combo.
[]NO Xfactor is allowed
[]Number of Somersaults in your combo, and notation/video is needed in your response.
[]Have fun! :slight_smile:
[/LIST]
The person with the most Somersaults in their combo is probably going to get a nice LIVE point giftcard/PSN Giftcard. Good luck guys!

713

I’m working on it now. Would you count normals as moves, or are they free game?

I made two, both with six somersaults to satisfy either condition as well as all the rest:
(in the corner with some space between opponent and corner)

Somersault, 22S, Somersault, 22S, Somersault, 22S, M, 22S, Somersault, TK cartwheel (backwards), 22S, call Hyper Grav, dash up, j.S, st.H, (Hyper Grav hits), 22S, Somersault, 22S, Somersault ----- (545,200)

Somersault, 22S, Somersault, 22S, Somersault, 22S, Arrow Kick, H DKD, call Hyper Grav, 22S, Somersault, 22S, (Hyper Grav hits), Somersault, 22S, Somersault ----- (536,900)

I was hoping for seven, but six is the best I’ve got right now.

On an unrelated note, I was practicing resets from cartwheels when I accidentally did Raven Spike after crossing up with feral dash during their wake-up (like they were in the middle of standing up on the hyper freeze frame) and it actually crossed up, passing over their invincible wake-up and turning back around to hit them in the other direction. I’m wondering if it’s as tricky to block as it looks, and that it may be some insight to an applicable tactic.

714

Normals count as a move.

Yeah, Raven Spike does cross up at times. Going to make a bigger thread for the contest :slight_smile:

715

i like the sound of this comp, gonna give it a shot.

btw is it only me but does jills meter gain seriously suck? it seemed bad enough with all the extensions wallbounce etc but since i have vergil behind saving them is more beneficial now im finding it sits like barely around 3/4. Maybe meter positive kills are abnormal :frowning:

If you do find a mad beast tac infinite you will have some nice stuff to work with > snap xx tools of survival super dhc to mad beast hardtag frank :slight_smile:

  1. im learning this the hard way now :frowning: ive been working on a new bnb for her better than that feral L crap i was using im thinking she will never see 800k in a practical combo at this rate seems everything gets wrapped up pretty fast once she hits feral M, had a few nice ideas ill post em up and get everyones input,

  2. i tried to make one for jill in normal mode and while randomly testing if u hit with a late H touch the ground (while touching the ground buffer feral crouch) and h hold H she gets an instant summersault to go into jump loops im not sure if this is guaranteed but when i tried it looked like a good start maybe this info may be off use to you

716

Two perfectly good reasons to take advantage of Jill’s crazy ambiguous resets. I think saying it sucks is a bit of a stretch, but she can do about 400k from the most basic combos which build about a bar. If you get the reset, that’s almost two bars and about a million damage if you end it with MGS.

717

Jill’s meter game isn’t bad. Her Go-To-BNB Jump loop builds a solid bar and extensions to that build even more.

718

H+A2, SummerSault xx FC, (A2 hit), [Flip Kick xx FC] x3, xx 22S(uncancel), 5M, 5H+A1, 4H xx Cartwheel xx FC, (A1 hits), SummerSault xx Super

A1=Vergil, A2= Strider
this is the current combo im tinkering with no ground bounce or wall bounce since im using vergil and his dhc combo continuation will build one bar.
Doubt this is far from optimized i attempted to see where the damage could go with feral M xx 22S, Arrow Kick but i cant hit the link at all because you are point blank in the corner (my execution is weaksauce) i tried skipping and going straight to H xx cartwheel after the feral M but they flip out not sure if the hitstun is finished at this point.

Damage with a1,a2 and summersault at the end: 488.8k - (not too far off from paulos 521k but he did have the most optimal dmg starter)

493.9k if you start with 9S,5M,5H>my combo

with raven spike super: 623.8k

if you want the damage without strider assist take out 50k~

Any suggestions on how i can beef up this combo im seeing you guys are doing triple summersaults at the start of your combos is this viable?

719

I would not think Jill would need or even want any help from assists for her combos unless it was really subtle. Her damage comes from slapping as many powerful hits in as possible, hence the destructive power behind somersault, 6H, feral M, and her three connecting heavies. I saw NSR use Vajra in his combo after a launcher to get an extra hit in for a little more easy damage, though it was still essentially the same thing.

For triple somersaults, I just set it up in training by giving some room between the corner and the opponent which lets you get three raw somersaults in a row instead of two since the corner won’t push you back after the first one. If that’s the only way to do it, then I don’t think it’s at all viable.

I know Jill’s incoming mixups can be pretty spooky, so I’m thinking now is as good a time as any to learn to incorporate snap-backs into my game. I was discussing it with a friend and we agreed that it’s definitely a universally underused tactic. Jill could murder a handful of characters intended for assist or anchor duties if she confirms off their incoming, I think, which of course would turn the game even more in one’s favor.

720

God Gangie, if you knew How much I love incoming mixups haha. I agree, but I feel that Jill’s the happy birthday queen and some Jill teams are MADE to kill assists and point characters with meter. I feel that getting the happy birthday on your opponent via her invincible-somersault isn’t a hard feat. Snapbacks are great and allow us to setup mean ass Incomming options, but killing off the HB saves the slim chance of escaping the Opening Mixup and killing the point and assist.

Here’s 3 easy ones (I’m at work) that incorporate my Vajira ssist

  1. Abuse Corner Arrow kick+Call Strider. This causes an EXTREMELY quick and hard to block cross-under. But wait, that’s not it. If by some stroke of luck they block the crossunder, quickly 22S–> 6 and go for her Kara’d Position Exchange. This creates pretty much unblockable situations. Hell, if you don’t want to go for the Kara Position exchange go 22S–>6–>2M. For a Cross under and quick low.

2 Double-“Triple” quasi Overheads. I really like Using her 22S–>7S/9S and Vajira for pretty much a Guess. depending on where it hits, Jill may cross your opponent up on opposite sides. Infact, you can do 22S–>9S–>22S–> 7S and call Vajra for some really dumb stuff.

  1. Rapid Somersaults and Cross unders (1). You can use Reset 1 along with a Quick Somersault to create dumb meaties and go back into the Corner Arrow kick and strider stuff.

Love incomming mixups