I actually didn’t realize that using an OTG made it more reliable. I’ll add that next time I edit my post.
I’ve been doing this with Sent. pretty much since day one, just never realized I was resetting anything lol.
OK, I’ve done quite a bit of testing. I believe I’ve narrowed it down to exactly what you need to do.
… combo into the Cinematic Super.
Yep, that’s it. 1-hit into Cinematic Super into DHC (non-hitting) will reset the damage/hit-stun scaling. There are exceptions (Spider-Man’s simply doesn’t work) but for the most part, a simple combo is all it takes.
Here is all the testing I used to get to that point (which is now basically pointless seeing as I realized you simply need to combo into the Cinematic super). I kept it for posterity!
— original post I was working on —
First things first. Simply doing Cinematic Super RAW (with no other combo elements) into Non-Hitting super does NOT cause this trick to happen. If you just do Cutting Time or Elemental Rage or Bionic Maneuvers then DHC into Thor’s Mighty Punish or Hyper Sentinel Force, the damage isn’t increased. In all of the combos, a state change is needed (I believe).
Here are some test cases to look at:
Test 01: Storm Basic OTG vs Non-OTG.
Storm Elemental Rage (no combo) xx Hyper Sentinel Force. You can see the HSF drones hit for 20 dmg. No damage scaling reset.
Storm S, sj.M-M-H-S, land, Elemental Rage xx HSF. You can see the HSF drones hit for 40 damage. Scaling reset.
Storm c.H, jump, Lightning Attack Down/Forward, M-c.H, jump, Lightning Attack Down/Forward, Elemental Rage xx HSF. Drone’s come in and do full damage (unscaled).
I re-tested with Thor DHC into Mighty Punish whiff (HCB+PP), stand M. If Elemental Rage is done by itself, Thor’s stand M does like 12k. If Storm combos into Elemental Rage, Thor’s stand M does 90k.
This is the test-case that made me realize that you don’t need ANY of the trickery that I was testing before.
Test 02: Spider-Man Attempts
Spider-Man DP+H~H (bounce), DP+H~H (slamdown), Wesker/Sentinel OTG, Maximum Spider xx Hyper Sentinel Force. Drones come in and do 20 damage (scaled).
Spider-Man S, sj.M-M-H-S, Sentinel Rocket Punch, Maximum Spider xx Hyper Sentinel Force. Drones come in and do 20 damage (scaled).
Spider-Man c.L+Spencer Piercer Assist-c.M-c.H xx Maximum Spider (hit’s off wallbounce) xx Hyper Sentinel Force. Drone’s come in and do 20 damage (scaled).
Spider-Man HCB+L, QCF+PP xx Hyper Sentinel Force. Drones come in and do 20 damage (scaled).
Spider-Man (corner) HCB+L, H xx QCF+L xx QCF+PP xx Hyper Sentinel Force. Drones come in and do 20 damage (scaled).
Spider-Man air throw, Rocket Punch Assist, QCF+PP. Drones come in and do 20 damage (scaled).
Under NO circumstances could I get it to work with Spider-Man.
This could mean a few things:
a) Spider-Man’s MS does not count as cinematic (doubtful)
b) the state-change and/or OTG both need to be performed by the point character (which isn’t the case).
c) it just doesn’t work with Spider-Man (lol) <-- the case (it seems).
When canceling out of Maximum Spider on any hit, the opponent will enter the “spiraling” recovery state. This makes me believe it is definitely a cinematic super (in addition to the fact that it has a camera shift).
I tested the “point character must OTG themselves” theory with X-23 (see below) and it proves that another character can be the OTG and allow it to work.
Test 03: Spencer Variations
Spencer Bionic Maneuvers (no combo) xx HSF. Drones come in and do about 23 dmg (scaled).
Spencer QCF+S xx Bionic Maneuvers xx HSF. Drones come in and do 40 damage (unscaled).
Spencer DP+L (command throw), L-c.M-H xx QCF+PP xx HSF. Drones come in and do about 40 damage (unscaled).
Spencer (in corner for testing purposes) S, sj.H-S, falling QCF+H, falling S, land, H xx QCF+P xx QCF+PP xx HSF. Drones come in and do 40 damage (unscaled).
Results: Spencer does NOT need to OTG them in any way (as witnessed by DP+L into combo into Bionic Maneuvers). After launching with Command Grab (DP+L), Spencer simply combos directly into Bionic Maneuvers then HSF for full damage.
Test 04: X-23 - Testing Self-OTG vs Assisted OTG
X-23 versus Sentinel: Weapon X Prime (DP+PP) xx HSF. Drones come in and do about 20 damage (scaled).
X-23 versus Sentinel: low air throw in corner, QCF+M(full charge) xx DP+PP xx HSF. Drones come in and do 40 damage (unscaled).
X-23 versus Sentinel: low air throw in corner, A1 (Rocket Punch), DP+PP xx HSF. Drones come in and do 40-50 damage (unscaled).
So, in this case, we have X-23 performing her own OTG and going into the super. She then cancels into HSF and the full damage is awarded. If Sentinel Rocket Punch assist is used, she also gets full damage. However, if Weapon X Prime is used raw and then DHC’ed into HSF, no damage reset results.
Updated post on first page:
http://shoryuken.com/content/dhc-trick-01-full-damage-hit-stun-scaling-reset-3813/
Note: You can ALSO XFC an incoming DHC that DOES hit, but do it BEFORE the first hit connects. You will then get the DHC Trick Bonus (and the XF bonus on top of that).
So, this trick can be used to ignore the automatic 50% damage reduction in post-grab and post-command-grab combos? That seems like a pretty big deal.
Didn’t see you guys had this moved to General Forum. I wrote up a big post on the current findings and then saw the other one after! Back at home in X-23 forums I guess!
Nybb, yes… but the hit has to be physical (it seems). Storm throw into ER into HSF doesn’t work. However, Storm throw into Rocket Punch (or any OTG) into ER into HSF works.
… which makes this great for X-23 because she can OTG by herself with a physical hit and then combo into Weapon X Prime. However, that only seems to work on Sentinel… so using another assist to keep them airborne will help as well (be it OTG or just a juggling hit).
You can also connect Weapon X Prime on She-Hulk after an OTG without an assist. I guess she has a funky hitbox. Right on for all the info Trag.
EDIT: This only works on She-Hulk in the corner (Obviously). I went through the entire cast and Sentinel/She-Hulk are the only characters this works on without using an assist after the OTG. If anyone knows why this works on She-Hulk and not the other big/tall characters let me know.
Has anyone figured out a rule set for determining when weapon x prime crosses up and when it doesn’t? I’ve noticed it does in the corner for some characters and not for others.
skinny chars - crosses up
fat chars - doesn’t
that’s about all I’ve been able to figure out though. I thought you could check and see where X-23 is in relation to the opponent after you OTG and combo your assist, but I’m not confident there is a correlation between that and the crossup yet. I thought I was onto something - if the guy barely leaves the ground and is clearly on one side, you don’t have to input your DHC backwards but then I played a character (wesker maybe?) who looked like he was still in the corner but required a backwards input anyway
I wait until after the animation is over before doing a DHC, which seems to work fine.
Yeah so far thats been one of the biggest hurdles I’ve had using x-23 with this mindset of a DHC of death. There’s some (seeming) randomness that causes the sequence to screw up and I end up dropping the combo. X-23 to dante is probably the easiest DHC to execute since dante’s combo kind of “corrects” for positional problems. X-23 to wolverine is similar with that regard.
I’ve only tried it on X-23, Zero and Sent. I’m thinking that when she does weapon x prime and runs all the way past the opponent and into the wall for a few seconds then it crosses up. I’m loving this new technology, now my team just became a bigger threat >:D
[media=youtube]8Ol6w_m7doY[/media]
If you loop enough Thunder Edges then you can kill most characters lol.
You’re right, I got this to work. If you basically wait until the super animation is over and the background is gone, your DHC will work fine from the direction you expect it to regardless of character. But it has to be extremely late.
i was stoked to find out that my team has this, i use x-23, wolverine, ironman. i do any x-23 bnb air combo into light talon attack, assist repulsor blast with ankle slicer to give me time for the weapon x prime, dhc berserker rage into whatever wolverine combo i need, usually dont even have to tag an ultra at the end as it does over a million without one
i hope this doesnt get patched, it makes up for x-23 low health, and my teams weak zoning
no need to ever do a super as Ammy you can just do a bunch of 236L, link into a S then do M M S df+H xx 236S or whatever it is and you’ve killed everyone.
also I dunno if that is your normal X-23 combo but you are leaving tons of damage on the table you should be able to get 670k before your DHC. I don’t think your combo builds a bar either.
Ooh I see. Yeh I was just keeping my X-23 combo simple because in a real match I wouldn’t be able to pull off the good long combos and it would take me quite a few tries to record one lol.
So… I’m guessing there isn’t any way to combo into Weapon X Prime without the right assist?
for most of the cast you need an assist. i know dantes jam session works anywhere on the screen, i think ammys cold star works anywhere. doom rocks and beam work in the corner.