Guess this answers my question
So how about that teleport non cross up being fix in the corner for sim? http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2016/09/22/street-fighter-v-update-today-going-live-10-hours-server-maintenance/#/slide/1
Really don’t understand the whole “new sim” design choices.
Sim is supposed to be a zoner, yet :
- almost useless fireball, mixup only tool : you can’t zone with it, and almost any character can punish you heavily for using this on neutral
- very poor AA options, cMP and b+MP trade all day, b+HP is supposed to be his “big damage if you dare jumping on me” but so slow you can’t hit anyone unless you predicted a jump 3 days beforehand.
His jab AA is ok, but not like people will stop jumping because of that. Sliding under jumpins doesn’t really put any fear into them either. - non-stretched normals have no range, no 3f normal to put down the pressure, b+mk is a shadow of its former self.
- stretched normals are slow and very easy to whiff punish / counter, using HP or HK is like throwing a hadoken or worse : recovery can and will get you killed, with almost no reward (CC from mid screen lets you do another HP / HK or a slide at best).
I get that “rushdown” Sim works, especially with people that have no idea about the matchup (look at Brooklyn Beatdown for proof), but what is the point of his zoning tools if you have to play Sim like you’d play Cammy ?
Seems dumb as hell to me …
Stages are small, no “get off me” reversal, slow as hell V-Reversal, no poke worth using at mid range, “I’ll eat 35% damage if you jump” pokes at long range, a fireball that “you shouldn’t use much unless your opponent is down”, still as heavy execution-wise while most of the cast shifted to “easy exe and easy links” (hcb for yoga flame ? what’s the point ?) … all of this with adding a very bad VSkill / VTrigger combo : Float is borderline useless with half of the cast having specials that burst through 3/4 of the screen within 0.1 sec, some with armor !; VT is 200 damage at best, and that’s with a LOT of luck, should have been his V-Skill with 2 charges and VT should have been something else entirely (horizontal fireball mode ?).
Alright, I’m boutta light you on fire like my boi Sim would.
-"almost useless fireball"
His fireball is really good for this game. Almost every character, except Sim himself, jump in to cover the most distance. It’s not about actually hitting the opponent with the fireball, it’s about neutral game; establishing that the air is yours. He has 3 fireballs that cover the middle level of the screen, vertically. Having the fireballs already scares your opponents. You can’t spam the fireballs, just like you can’t spam anything in any game: you’ll get punished for it. But if you play smart and appropriately, your fireball placements and timings will have the opponent scared of jumping in on you or even moving forward. L Fireball + M Slide is godlike as it makes your slide safe, moves you forward, and gets a combo if the slide or fireball hits. To top it off, EX Fireball is fucking godlike. 2 Hits and travels straight. You get fat mixups with both regular fireballs and EX version too. Learn a bit about neutral.
-"very poor AA options"
This is just wrong. Anyone correct me if I’m wrong but, Sim has the most AAs (Anti Airs) in the game, all to be used for different situations. Of course, if you use the wrong AA in a situation, that’s only your fault, not the character.
s.LP is for when the opponent is very close to you, or trying to cross you up. Snuffs the crossup attempt, quick.
b.MP is for when they’re jumping in on you, maybe coming down with a move. If you waited too long to AA, you have the possibility of trading, but with the window you have to actually AA, most of the time, you’ll beat them clean.
c.MP is my least favorite and used, but has the least trades. It reaches the furthest so you’re gonna be hitting them before they’ve even pressed they’re attack. The angle is a little strange though. I won’t really address this move.
b.HP or “Gum Gum Rocket” (not really a One Piece fan but you get the reference) This is NOT the AA to go to. With that being said, that doesn’t make it a bad AA, it’s just not the preferred AA. This is a READ. You don’t just throw it out and try to “get lucky”. You just have to KNOW that you’re opponent is going to come down with a button from analyzing their player habits, or at least have a gut feeling. Never just throw it out.
-"non-stretched normals have no range"
Um…duh. They’re not supposed to; they’re non-stretched normals.
s.LP puts great pressure, especially on EX Gale after jab confirm.
c.HP is godlike. Hella chip damage, you’re guaranteed c.HP into c.HP. You get either good chip from it, a frame trap if they’re pressing buttons in between, or a combo if they pressed something to begin with. In addition, after 2 consecutive c.HPs, you’re pushed far away enough to use your stretchy normals (the point of the character)
-“stretched normals are slow/easy to counter”
Part I: MercureXI doesn’t know anything about Normals
They’re not the fastest moves but they’re sure as hell not slow.
s.MK and s.MP are some of the best normals in the game. Decent chip, quick startup, and low recovery frames. These are his GO TO moves. Abuse these moves (with caution). But they recover so quick, the odds of you getting punished for them are slim to none. For example, at the start of the round, if you were to open the match with either move, and your opponent was to open with a jump in, you actually have enough time to recover and either block or, for the bold, s.LP them.
Part II: MercureXI’s Ignorance will get you killed
NOW, his H moves in general.
His s.HP, c.HK, and s.HK are are slow start up, slow recovery moves. But Of COURSE THEY ARE.
Just like every other character in the game, from Ryu’s sweep to Fang’s sweep to Bison’s b.HK, they’re all slow start up, slow recovery moves.That’s the point.
All these moves would be broken if they weren’t like that.
The only thing I will agree with that you said (and I’m actually surprised you made the comparison, since you’ve been so wrong), is that yes, his H moves are just like fireballs.
But the thing is, fireballs help neutral; they don’t win neutral. You can’t just throw out a s.HP, just like you can’t throw out a fireball randomly or, for lack of a better word, “willy nilly”. If you’re abusing these, you will get read, jumped in, and eat a super. Not the moves fault, not the character’s fault. Wait, you guessed it right, your fault.
-"no ‘get off me’ reversal"
Wrong. There are actually only a handfull of characters that have a V-Reversal as good Sim’s. And even less of the characters’ V-Reversals cause knockdowns and Sim is one of those characters. Alright, so I’d have love a DP for Sim but that’d be asking for too much. But he also has wake up jab and wake up teleport. Let’s try not to be scrubby and use these too often though. Most of the time, just wake up and BLOCK (option select block and grab). So yeah, some characters have better reversal options but, with your limbs, you shouldn’t really be allowing the opponent to get too close to you anyways.
-"no poke worth using at mid range"
See “stretched normals are slow/easy to counter”, Part I
-"pokes at long range"
See “stretched normals are slow/easy to counter”, Part II
-"heavy execution"
See "Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3"
But seriously, QCB (Quarter Circle Back) is such a simple input. If you want to even complain, AT LEAST talk about tiger knee gale.
-"bad V-Trigger"
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Sim’s V-Trigger. What you don’t understand is, it’s not about the DoT (Damage over Time) that the V-Trigger does, it’s the pressure that comes with it; the mental game. The V-Trigger can be broken down to physical and mental game.
Physical
For one, the initial startup of the flame carpet (Shout outs to Dormammu) does damage. You can cancel any normal into V-Trigger, getting a combo and a knockdown. The go-to combo is usually c.MK xx V-Trigger. Nets decent damage and makes the slide safe (Keep in mind that this is what most Sim players do so many players are ready for it and will V-Reversal the slide, which will hit your V-Trigger and cancel and waste it). The entirety of the carpet gets you about 20% of white life, possibly a little more.
Mental Game
The fire equivalent of Fang’s Poison, standing in fire is never a good thing. Your opponent WILL be scared. As instantly as they are standing in the fire, their character is glowing red. The mindset of a player in the fire shifts; it changes. They play differently, they’re scared because they’re life is falling down. They’re desperate to get out of the flames, to stop glowing red. As I mentioned before, what’s the best option most characters have to cover the most distance (or to back away as quick as possible)?
JUMP!
They always jump. And they’ll always jump. And if they don’t jump, that’s only because they want to jump, except that they’re trying to keep they’re composure and keep calm. Now, add in that they’re still staring down a +framed Sim, and you’re in one of the strongest positions you’ll be in the match. As mentioned above, it’s not about the white life they lose, that’s just the bonus. The mistakes they will make, the shift in their play, is what you capitalize on in this situation. You can get a teleport in, poke them out and add even more white life, force them to jump and anti air, losing all that white life. They’re yours at this point.
-"bad V-Skill"
You use your V-Skill to build you’re V-Meter up, so you can V-Trigger sooner. Instead of jumping over fireballs (never jump with Sim. Just don’t) or just blocking them, you can slide under them or V-Skill over them. V-Skill puts you in the air. You’re opponent can’t get an actual combo on you. You use it for space control, to establish your area.
Anyone have anything they disagree with, feel free to share. Let’s Get Good
In case you want to neutral jump float, wich method recovers faster? Press mp+mk right away or neutral jump manually and then press mp+mk for the vskill float?
What do you mean by “recover”?
If you mean" unfloat", then it doesn’t matter if you neutral jump or if you do it from the ground. Recovery would be the same.
Sry, I expressed myself incorrectly. What I actually wanted to know is if you enter the state of floating faster (and can therefore act faster) by jumping manually instead of using vskill on the ground.
I do disagree with long range normals. They’re easier to whiff punish or CC them than you think. You can’t just spam them without the risk of getting so you gotta chance up the timing especially when they’re getting blocked since you’re minus. Ex. Against Balrog this is bad and makes you lose the ground game.
Also VR leads to nothing in certain matchups on hit, not even a tp out or a fb to make them retreat away ( rashid comes in mind )
The meta is still changing very fast so adjustments has to done and sim has to be played more with more caution in neutral
Massive wall of text incoming.
Sim’s fireballs are only good in certain matchups. There are a ton of characters that can punish fireball on reaction due to how slow it is. This problem became a lot worse with the DLC characters, since Juri, Ibuki, Urien, Alex, and Balrog all have tools to reaction punish his fireball.
Arced fireballs were a neat idea but they just don’t fit the meta of this game. Capcom keeps adding characters that can essentially get in for free either meterless or with 1 bar thanks to safe on block gap closers. You might say “well, Sim can stuff those approaches for 1 bar as well” but that’s not enough to zone your opponent out when EX fireball at most affords you at most a couple seconds of safety and your opponent has up to 90 seconds to wait for the right opportunity. A meterless horizontal fireball would make Sim’s zoning way more consistent; his limbs by themselves are too slow and easily counter-poked to keep out most of the cast.
The problem with this reasoning is that characters in SFV (and SF in general) tend to have better ground approach tools than air approach tools. Don’t get me wrong, there are some matchups where I’m glad to have fireball as an AA tool (vs. shotos for instance) but most of the time Dhalsim’s AA normals do the job well enough that the vertical fireball feels unnecessary. Meanwhile our ground game is crap DESPITE the fact that the scariest rushdown tools are mainly ground-based.
Why do you think Sim has to spend meter for a horizontal fireball in the first place? It’s because horizontal fireballs are better in this game (and not just at zoning… Sim’s EX fireball leads to better setups than the meterless ones because only EX covers both quick and back rise).
Now if Capcom doesn’t want zoning to be strong in SFV I can accept that, HOWEVER Sim’s offense is not nearly good enough to warrant how crappy his zoning is right now. You can just walk backwards out of Sim’s pressure unless you’re in the corner… and how the hell is Sim supposed to get people in the corner? Most of the time that only happens if I land a back throw, lol.
If I could only get two changes for Sim in S2 it would be:
-s.LK hits low
-s.LP combos into LP flame
Although it’s atypical for a standing move to hit low, I think it’s necessary for Sim since he lost his downback normals in SFV. Slides are not safe enough on hit or block to fill that gap. Not only would a low confirm give Sim better midrange pressure, it would also make him less vulnerable to approach tools that are -2 on block (like Orochi). Those tools are balanced around the fact that being -2 is generally an undesirable situation, but currently there’s very little drawback to being -2 vs. Sim when walking backwards beats all of his follow-ups.
As for the s.LP>LP flame change, I just see no reason why Sim should have to spend meter for a light confirm when nobody else has that problem.
Yeah Sim’s AA’s are fantastic; this isn’t really something to complain about.
There are certain characters with moves that are very hard to AA (such as Ken’s EX tatsu and Ibuki’s air kunai) but that’s a problem for anybody without a DP, it’s not a Sim-specific problem. At least Sim has b.HP which beats almost everything even if it’s more of a proactive tool than a reactive one. And of course Sim has cross-under slides which are very helpful vs. moves like Ryu’s j.LK that most of the cast struggles with.
Again I agree, our up-close normals are good (apart from jab not comboing into LP flame).
Totally disagree with this. Like El_Flako said they are easy to whiff punish or counter-poke, which forces you to either mix things up with s.HP/s.HK or introduce pauses where you don’t press buttons for a few moments. The former option opens you up to jump-ins while the latter option opens you up to dash-ins or advancing special moves. Pick your poison.
Again, a meterless horizontal fireball would do wonders here.
See above. The problem is that Sim has to use these slow-ass moves as pokes because his medium pokes are easy to counter when used predictably. Bison and FANG’s other mid-range buttons are harder to shut down than Sim’s so they don’t have to rely as much on their slower moves in neutral.
I don’t think Sim’s execution is all that hard, BUT I still would consider it a drawback in a game where most other characters have trivial execution. Sim is already one of the characters with the least margin of error, so execution mistakes are a very real concern and will almost certainly lose you a round at some point. That’s definitely something I would take into consideration if I was a tournament player.
I remember people saying the same thing about FANG’s poison a few months in.
“Yeah the damage might suck, but it does, like… psychological damage, man!”
Good players figured out rather quickly that getting poisoned isn’t worth losing your shit over, and the “psychological damage” thing became a non-factor. Same thing with Sim’s V-trigger. The fact that you say people always jump over Sim’s VT makes me think you are playing people who aren’t familiar with the matchup. If your opponents are panicking simply because their character model turns red on screen, they probably just haven’t played very many Sims.
The other thing you overlook is that you can just walk/jump backwards/backdash out of a midscreen flame carpet, so it will rarely deal even close to 20% white life. It’s better in the corner, but if Sim has his opponent cornered chances are he’s winning anyways. That makes his VT pretty crappy as a comeback tool.
The fact that it works as a hit confirm seems nice until you realize that every other character’s VT also works as a hit confirm, except Sim is the only character who NEEDS his VT just to get a low that is safe on block (but still loses to V-reversal :|)
I agree that Sim’s V-skill is good. I’d say it’s one of the better designed V-skills in the game, even if it’s less useful in some matchups than others. I wouldn’t mind if it had a slightly faster startup (or perhaps a smaller vertical hurtbox) to make it more useful for evading dash-punch type moves.
As for “never jump with Sim,” that’s only true if you’re talking about a raw jump. Mix in air teleports, V-skill, and drills at various heights and you can jump all over the place.
For the v-skill for sim, is it faster to jump then do it, or do it raw? Seems slightly faster to me to do the jump but I may be crazy.
its faster to do the jump. its also better because doing it raw doesn’t let you choose the height and has a vulnerable startup animation, but if you’re just using it in the neutral, it usually doesn’t matter.
Last post: 24 days ago.
Yup pretty much sums up this character
Sim forum always starts off great then goes dead. Vanilla SF4 Sim went from having Ultradavid, Arturo, Fchamp and Simsim posting stuff, to not having a single post in like a year in Ultra lol.
He’s not a ninja that goes after cute boys so can’t expect a lot of posts.
From the buffs I’m hearing though he should be in a good spot in season 2. The nerfs to knockdown set play and meterless reversals is right up Sim’s alley.
Dhalsim S2 changes:
- st. MP is +2 oH (was 0)
- st. HP doesn’t CC unlike what someone said
- st. MK is +2 oH (was 0)
- st. HK is +4 oH (was -3)
- cr. MK is -2 oH and -7 oB (was -3/-8)
- cr. HK is -20 oB (was -21)
- b+MP is +1 oB and +4 oH (was 0/+3)
- yoga fire is -3 oH and -5 oB (was -6/-8)
- EX yoga fire is +3 oB (was +5)
- L gale seems to be +3 oB now (was +2)
- teleport is FULLY INVINCIBLE on frame 1. Impossible to throw Sim out of it.
@OceanMachine thank you again for your effort!!
Some stuff that came to my mind… st.lk , b+mp and b+hp are faster now?? (5->4 , 8->6 and 12->10 respectively)
v-trigger is still active after opponents v-reversal?
After throw do you have (st.lp)d+mp slide meaty and from back throw st.hp?
Btw you are saying about 2 yoga fires on block (-3 and +3)…mistake?
Sorry I meant EX yoga fire.
I’ll look up the other stuff later.
Wait so Akuma’s meterless teleport can be thrown, but now Sim gets full invincibility on his much faster teleport? I mean yeah, he doesn’t have a DP, but that’s a BUFF
thanks for the info man! i was looking for Dhalsim S02 changes and didn’t find anywhere!
too bad that st.HP do not CC =\ this would be perfect for the hadouken war
B.Mp is still 8F startup. It feels like B.Hp is still 12F. His AA is definitely buffed with the hit and hurting changes. He didn’t even need these moves to startup faster, but it would’ve been nice.
I feel it’s easier to setup corner pressure after a throw now. Forward throw- lk.slide-st.lp/throw mix-up seems airtight. Needs testing. As does forward throw- st.lp-cr.hp/b.hp/b.mk. mixup. His throw game is completely different.
Float does indeed startup faster, both airborne and grounded. Yoga fire has less recovery frames. I can’t tell it J.Lp has more hit/blockstun.
A major unlisted change is Lp.CA. The orb doesn’t go as high into the air, so it comes down to the ground faster. This change coupled with Sim’s far normals being super cancellable can make for some nasty chipout
scenarios with his VT.