Since its horizontal hit-area is fairly large, a 3-frame Super could mean a lot of post-blocking punishment opportunities we otherwise wouldn’t have, right?
Dash-> Super after blocking Blanka’s Rolling Attack may be possible. Dee Jay’s Sobat, Adon’s heavy Jaguar kick, Rose’s Spiral etc. may all have the frequency of their use curtailed once Gouken has his gauge at maximum.
With the supposed changes to the regular Kongo, it might turn out that we’re less reliant on the EX Kongo now. The Super buff can only help.
As an aside, I’ve always been of the mind that, in AE, it’s nearly everyone else who needs toning down rather than Gouken needing a power-up.
if his mp palm was safe on block i’d probably consider him a complete character with these buffs, as it is he’s still got nothing on people just outside cr.hk range who can spam safe shit in your face.
edit: i guess winning strategy could be to sacrifice round one and use it to gain full super so you can begin round two and completely limit a bunch of characters offense, presumeably unloading the super early on and reuilding enough meter to use it again mid round 3. a gimped version of 3s chun strategy
I’m looking at the numbers, even if you cancel f.mp on the first active frame, it’ll leave you at +16, yet mp.Palm starts up in 20. How is this going to combo? Or am I doing this wrong
f.mp 5 / 2 / 11 / +1 / +4 for Start up, active, recovery, BA and HA so of cancelled on first active frame it’ll have 1 + 11 + 4 frames of hit stun left
to me the normal buffs esp cl.st.hk help with his defense and a lot of other shit , makes him feel real solid inside…j.mp(2 hits)>cl.st.hk>sweep? , we can probably cl.st.hk>fadc>into a real combo, itd be nice to cancel that first hit into a tatsu for guranteed connectivity at closest range possible…
Im excited for these buffs they fit me perfectly, except for super , i hardly use it cause of the meter building
they can buff gouken’s single hit pokes, but everybody will still just focus fish in his face.
i don’t want to hit fs.hp in a fight because my opponent is always focusing in my face or jumping on me because i don’t have any tools to make him not want to do those things.
i don’t even like poking with c.hk anymore.
they are going to be focusing or jumping.
What frame data are you looking at? st.mp has +1 hit stun in 2012 so add that in if you haven’t and then go back and look at the super frame data for LP palm since that will be the MP palm for 2012.
EDIT: Well you have the right data, with the exception of the +1 hit stun, but that still isn’t enough, plus you have to travel distance if you are comboing off of st.mp which means you need even more then frame perfect stun when looking at the frame data.
The far mp change is good, but how useful is far mp anyway? Imagine using it in a poking situation against like a sakura or ryu/ken who use their cr mk’s as pokes. Or Roses who use the slides. Or any characters with low pokes.
Still I like these changs alot, and it’s nice to see they are doing something to compensate the hp palm removal nerf. Though I still grieve its loss.
Also, with regard to focusers, I think the old super lp palm was a nice, if a little risky, solution to that. It may well be something you could do on reaction at that range where people focus in your face.
Being able to special cancel off of st.mp gives Gouken a good hit confirm after you use cl.st mp.
Cl. st.mp > far. mp > mp palm/hado/tatsu/gf/super and whatever eles you can do from it. This will more than likely be used on wake up or after a jump in attack.
And even it is blocked, it still is a good frame trap.
I’m wondering how much distance far st.MP will move him forward when cancelled into a special. New MP Palm’s fastest start-up stays at 16f, and the new far st.MP will have 17f of hitstun. Gouken dashes approximately 1 character space within the 6 frames worth of movement in his palm. I don’t really see it comboing from the distance I want tbh.
Ok so right now Gouken AE 2012 changes this is what we are working with so far all together:
-Denjin during start-up has 3 levels of projectile speed depending on the 360 motion u input during startup. Has up to double speed. Dmg level is now consistent regardless of meter u have. Last hit of all levels does 45 additional dmg (300 dmg on lvl 1, 540 on lvl 5)
-LP Palm hitbox extended forward
-MP Palm is now super LP Palm, HP Palm is now super MP Palm
-Kongo armour box slightly extended and does 200 stun (Reports say this is still not working)
-cr.HP hitstun extended so cl.st.MP->cr.HP xx EX Palm always connects on the EX Palm part(Reports are saying EX palm still wiffs at times)
• His Collarbone Breaker (Overhead) has had its hitbox increased in the downwards direction, and its active time increased by 4 frames.
• Up until now, Gouken’s Overhead has been classified in the “Medium” attack category, but now it will be treated as a “Hard” Attack. The developers note that it is easier to hit crouching attacks with the overhead now.
• Gouken’s Super, Forbidden Shoryuken, had its startup time decreased from 11 to 3 frames. The developers look forward to this move being used more as a counter or in combos.
• Far standing Medium Punch’s hitstun increased by 1 frame. Far standing Medium Punch is now special cancelable. Thus, far standing Medium Punch canceled into Medium Running Palm is now possible.
• Far standing Hard Punch’s active time increased from 3 to 5 frames.
• Far standing Hard Kick’s active time increased from 2 to 5 frames.
We have quite a long list of changes and I think its safe to say that AE 2012 gouken will be the best version of gouken. The golden question is though do these changes make him tourny viable, solid, complete. Do they honestly fix goukens weaknesses or will he be more or less the same when compared to the rest of the cast.
Find out on the next episode of SUPER STREET FIGHTER 4 ARCADE EDITION 2012!!! >_>
Correction about overhead: The developers noted, they reduced hurtbox of it so it’s easier to make low attacks whiff, not easier to hit crouching attacks (it’s rather obivious thanks to hitbox buff)
wow, i think ima have to start playing this game again. i miss playing gouken, the mirrors with some of you guys, and getting in sessions with flight when he invites hella people. ahh memories. time for marvel to take the back seat. i think the f.mp being hit cancellable is gonna be so good. I like to use it for pokes and fake fbs. cant tell you how many times ive hit someone with that, but could do nothing more. anybody know that f.mps hitstun was before?
Since lp palm has more range then that option should be better for us. Right now though we dont have any idea on how far forward they moved the hitbox to determine anything.
Define right in front. At max sweep range, the fastest palm won’t reach and the one that does has 16 frames of start up if it is point blank, more if it is farther (which it is) The whole time it is vulnerable and since getting hit will count as a counterhit it is always a crumple.
The other option they gave us is EX tatsu but that requires meter and it is a very dangerous armor breaker since it can be baited and then punished with Ultra.
Compare that to most characters armor breaking moves at sweep range. Most characters when throwing out their armor break are not left at such a disadvantage of having lost an EX bar and in the position of being max punished. In fact, most characters will still get hit if they focus backdash bait or at worst the situation is reset to neutral.
When you focus backdash bait Gouken… away he goes.
too slow imo. you have to guess they will focus and do it, not on reaction. you will be crumpled for trying, at least i used to be in super when i tried
