Started to look into how quickly people get up against Cammy’s throws. I redid all the basic wakeup speeds as a leadup to this as well, versus Cammy’s d+HK and her FA2. The only throw that stands out is Dhalsim, as being different from his wakeup speeds.
Also, Ibuki I believe used to be slightly slower on one of her wakeups, but is now the same.
It feels way safer than -5. Anyone got a 2nd opinion on that one? While we’re on it, does anyone know the numbers on Spiral Arrow FADC on block??
Yeah, I asked the question originally and didn’t buy his answer =p. Checked some things in training mode and can confirm that she is no worse than even after a blocked FADC forward CS (she can escape/block reversal 0 frame moves). She’s possibly at an advantage, though I’m pretty sure it’s less than 3 frames. So somewhere between 0 and +2.
DP FADC and Spiral Arrow FADC are the same: she’s -1.
How do I know? Test it against Gief. If you hold Up on the joystick after a DP or Spiral Arrow FADC’ed into Forward Dash, you can’t escape Reversal 720 Ultras but CAN escape regular 360’s. 720 Ultras grab on the first frame (the frame where she is -1) and regular SPDs grab on the 2nd frame (when she is neutral and can start her jump now).
Hm. I did my testing vs Chun’s super, which supposedly has 1 frame and 0 frame versions. Cammy can block both when reversalled following an FADC CS. I’ve always thought it was odd that lk and hk super for Chun are 1 frame while the mk version is 0 frame, so maybe that is incorrect. Or can you recover and block a frame sooner than you can recover and get into prejump frames?
Never mind
Chun’s Supers are 2 frames of startup. They hit on the second frame. I think the Wiki page has it wrong that the Medium Kick one is 1 + 0. If that was the case, dear God, the things she could punish. Hahaha. But I think all three can only punish anything -2 or greater. So Cammy recovers just in time at -1.
http://shoryuken.com/f278/ssf4-arcade-cammy-changes-discussion-250759/index28.html#post9900998
I should probably have posted that in here instead. AE Cammy framedata (more to come as more vids show up):
Given how close mp is still +6, I don’t think we’ll be seeing any other normal go beyond +6 on hit aside from cr.hp which is already +7 and possibly the new close hp. Which essentially would mean no combos into sweep unless you go through a fierce first, just like how it is now.
so godlike!
I think James Chen and I are both right.
If anyone had’ve looked at the videos I included to back up my statement they would have seen I was backdashing.
Anyway, went through it again today, FADC back is -5 and FADC forward is -1.
The videos show the same jumping technique, and I’ve also shown it by clashing 1P close LP (i3) with 2P close MP (i4) for FADC forwards and 1P far LP (i3) versus 2P far HK (i8) on the first frame on which they can be input.
This information is based on the several AE Cammy videos out there.
First, to clear up a common misconception: You do not need 60 fps video to determine frame data. You only need a 60 fps reference for the character poses on each frame of each move. If all you care about is total startup and duration of a move, you don’t even need the reference. The reason the 60 fps reference helps is because character poses are always constant throughout animations - the same pose is shown on each frame of the animation, every single time.
The 60 fps sources I use are the hitbox videos and videos from my HD capture card. By frame-stepping through the 30 fps videos and comparing the poses to those on the 60 fps videos, you can perform frame-perfect counting pretty easily.
Also, while most of these videos are recorded at 720p and 30 fps, they also show the afterimages of the previous frames, so you can essentially see all 60 fps in action, making it much easier/faster to analyze the data. But this isn’t necessary, as you could still get frame-perfect counting from 20, or even 15 fps video just by comparing the poses against a 60 fps reference video, or with enough trials.
AE Cammy Framedata & Changes
Close st.lp: +4 on block, +7 on hit. 3F less recovery.
Total Startup/Active/Recovery: 3/2/5, from 3/2/8. As I predicted and as shown on [media=youtube]1pVVzNFF9KY#t=1m34s[/media], close st.lp is down to 5F recovery, making it +7 on hit and most likely +4 on block. Can link to sweep on hit.
Close st.mp: +2 on block, +6 on hit - see above post.
Same as SSF4, just with 2 less recovery frames so you have to time your links 2F earlier. Verified blockstun by judging Yun exiting block animation.
Close st.hp: +2 on block / +6 on hit.
Recovery reduced by 3F (from 15 to 12F). Startup/active/recovery changed from 4/4/15 to 4/4/11. Hitstun and blockstun are the same. Frame advantage from -1/+3 on block/hit changed to +2/+6. Non-CH close st.hp will link to far hp, cr.hp, cr.mp, cr,mk, far lk, cr.lk, and walking st.lp.
Far st.lp: +3 on block / +6 on hit. 2F less recovery.
12F -> 10F animation total. 2F recovery was cut from the end of the move. Same deal as cr.lp. +3 on block verified twice in the Ibuki video.
Far st.mp: same as SSF4
Far st.hp: 6F startup - see above post. Now has 6/3/19, from 7/2/19.
Verified this one on both of the occasions it is used in the Yun vid (hit and whiff). Framedata online incorrectly lists this as 7/2/15 in SSF4.
Far st.lk: same as SSF4
Far st.mk: same as SSF4
Close st.hk: same as SSF4 
Far st.hk: same as SSF4
cr.lp: +3 on block / +6 on hit.
Has a total of 10 animation frames: 3/2/6 as I predicted earlier. No extra hitstun on cr.lp, but -2 recovery to bring it to +6 on hit and +3 on block.
cr.mp: +3 on block / +6 on hit.
Total of 15 animation frames (verified on four different occasions - this one shows up a lot). Three of the recovery frames are cut to bring it to +6 on hit, +3 on block (based this off of Yun exiting block animation and standing up). Startup/active/recovery is now 5/4/7, from 5/4/10.
cr.hp: same as SSF4
cr.lk: same as SSF4
cr.mk: same as SSF4
cr.hk: same as SSF4
Cannon Strike: same startup/active/recovery. Same hitstun/blocktun. Head hit at shallow angle: Generally even on block, +3 to +4 on hit (depends on height of enemy). Minimum height requirement on frame 10 of air – after first 1/4 (9F) of jump arc has completed. Fastest jump CS has startup of 25F, up from 17F in SSF4. CS also must also be performed at least 10 frames before landing.
Hitstun remains the same as in SSF4: 18F. Blockstun remains 15F. Tested via Reversals done against divekick in both AE & SSF4; the “R” in Reversal appears after 18F of hitstun and 15F of blockstun in both games.
When Yun blocked the dive kick crouching, Cammy looked to be at +2 on block. CStrike on Yun’s head looked like +1 on block. Then again, Yun is short, so I could see this move being anywhere from +0~+4 on block depending on where you hit and how tall they are.
Blocked Cannon Strike on Ibuki’s head was also +1. Blocked Cannon Strike on Dudley’s head was +0. Hit Cannon Strike on Dudley’s head was +3.
Minimum height requirement is based off the lowest Cannon Strike as shown at[media=youtube]1pVVzNFF9KY#t=1m34s[/media] and at 3:09 as well (first strike). In round 1 (0:40) and round 4 (3:15) he tries for a frame 9 CStrike and gets j.mk/j.hk, which proves the frame 10 height restriction. Fastest possible startup of CS from a grounded state is 25F (+ 1-2F travel time if needed), which is 8F slower than SSF4 TKCS which hits at a fastest 17F.
Minimum Height for Cannon Strike w/Line
EX Cannon Strike: Framedata is same as SSF4, hitbox might be adjusted though.
LK Spiral Arrow: Same animation time (total) as in SSF4: 44F.
It was mentioned in the dev blog that changes were made to all Spiral Arrows. Since the animation time is still the same on lk arrow, it’s likely that either hitstun or active frames were changed, possibly leading to safer lk arrows. Or maybe it was just a damage nerf (lol).
MK Spiral Arrow: Same animation time (total) as in SSF4: 44F. Still -19 on block at pointblank.
Same as above - either more active frames or less damage.
HK Spiral Arrow: -15 on block at pointblank, from -10 in SSF4. Needs to hit within first 2 active frames for both hits, down from first 7 active frames in SSF4. Same animation time (total) as in SSF4: 44F.
Comparison of 2-hit HK Arrow in AE vs SSF4.
The 2-hit arrow is easiest to achieve by cancelling from a far fierce into the arrow because far fierce moves Cammy forwards a fair amount…
LK Cannon Spike: Same animation time (total) as in SSF4: 57F.
HK Cannon Spike: Same framedata as in SSF4.
EX Cannon Spike: -30 on block - same as in SSF4.
HP Spin Knuckle: 36F startup - same as in SSF4.
EX Spin Knuckle: 33F startup, 53F total animation - same as in SSF4.
EX Hooligan (Throw): 32F startup to grab a standing opponent, same as in SSF4.
since its kinda hard to go back and forth between pages trying to look at frame data, i decided to do a spreadsheet on the frame data of her normals. i compiled the data from sycho’s above post and eventhubs frame data chart.
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/5059/aecammynormalframedata.jpg
i just realized that cr.lk is only +2 on hit, so how can we link it with other light moves that are 3f startup?
Never use eventhubs for data. It’s ripped straight from the books complete with stupid mistakes, and hasn’t been amended since (see: cr.LP, fst.LK)
Use the stuff on the srk wiki instead (when it comes back up, or via google’s cache)
Also learn the difference between links and chains/cancels.
Yeah, was going to mention that eventhubs has a few (lot) of mistakes in there. Also hamneggs, you forgot to account for the added frame disadvantage due to the earlier hit on far fierce.
I’ve created a site with all of my above changes listed neatly, you can find it here:
AE Cammy Frame Data
And an image of normals data in table format is here:
http://www.teyah.com/ae/ae-cammy-normals.gif
i think i know the difference between links and cancels… unless my definition of either is COMPLETELY COMPLETELY wrong… which is possible XD. i DO recall reading that lk is kinda wierd where the second lk, lk is a cancel and not a link and making the second or third lk xx SA a link or something like that. dunno exactly, but was just wondering lol
but either way, in my defense i really had no reason to doubt eventhubs’ chart, but if they’re wrong they’re wrong
i was really just going for simplicity, not really taking into account the more technical aspects like which active frame hits the opponent such and such. but hey, i tried right? lol
SF4 admittedly, but looking at which was the superior method for TK. I wonder if in AE if it will be the same, given the minimum speed at which you can execute it.
For those interested, I’ve reupped the SSF4 hitbox data and updated it to include the AE changes, as well as some missing moves like air throw and (EX) Cannon Strikes in more detail. As far as I can tell, only HK Spiral Arrow and regular/EX Cannon Strike had changes from SSF4, all other hitboxes appear to be identical. But please correct me if you see any other differences in the new AE mook and the SSF4 hitbox videos, because I didn’t see any.
You can find the file here: http://www.teyah.com/ae/SSF4+AE_Cammy_Hitboxes.zip (229 MB)
good stuff. downloading it right now.
thanks!
A video of cammy’s AE TK asap.
I don’t understand the vid…
