Dedicated Thread: What we want in "ONLINE" Third Strike

Alexander · 2010-09-18T05:00:15.000Z

I thought Blaz Blue and Neo Geo Battle Colosseum had really good netcode. Like it was really good at 150-200 ping levels of good. Which is what all I want out of this. How online works on GGPO and 2DF as-is could be considered a different game. There’s so much weird shit you can’t punish and other things. One time on GGPO I did Alex’s EX Stomp (to chip out) and the Makato player was able to command grab me as I was in the air.

Mr_List · 2010-09-18T07:14:52.000Z

ok not much point saying anything else on rebalanacing but i have a question.

what will happen to this game if it is unchanged,not an arcade perfect port and the online isn’t quite perfect?
i’m pretty sure that is what we will all end up with come purchase day.
is this game really a waste of time?

what kind of imperfections from arcade could still be tollerable?
i know ps2 is off but still considered playable.

circle_masher · 2010-09-18T08:15:38.000Z

Yes, a rebalanced version would be a waste of time. Most of the players asking for rebalancing will get bored and wander off before long, leaving the more dedicated players to continue. And guess what? You just left those dedicated players with a big mess - do they carry on playing a rebalanced version hoping it will attract other new players, or do they ditch it and go back to the arcade version because that’s the only version that matters? SBO will not adopt a rebalanced version if 3S continues to be at SBO.

All “imperfections” from arcade are still tolerable. The fact that you call them imperfections speaks volumes: why can’t they be quirks? PS2 is fine when that’s people’s only option, but the arcade version is the standard. Being able to throw Akuma out of f.mp is not game-breaking.

DoctaMario · 2010-09-18T18:16:15.000Z

Mr_List:

what will happen to this game if it is unchanged,not an arcade perfect port and the online isn’t quite perfect?

This is exactly what’s going to happen. I get the whole “arcade perfect” thing, but basically every home port of an arcade game is an emulation, and as such, it means there are going to be “quirks” as Circle Masher put it.

If you want arcade perfect, play MAME (and even that isn’t “arcade perfect” in many cases) and have tourney organizers rent an arcade cab. Otherewise, it almost doesn’t matter. Folks who want to play the game will play whatever is considered the “best” version regardless of whether it’s arcade perfect or not.

Everdred · 2010-09-18T18:31:42.000Z

JAK:

Have you played the first two games at all?

yes i have what’s your point?

aku · 2010-09-18T18:44:05.000Z

Mr_List:

ok not much point saying anything else on rebalanacing but i have a question.

what will happen to this game if it is unchanged,not an arcade perfect port and the online isn’t quite perfect?
i’m pretty sure that is what we will all end up with come purchase day.
is this game really a waste of time?

what kind of imperfections from arcade could still be tollerable?
i know ps2 is off but still considered playable.

I trust the developers that they won’t fuck up the port, but maybe I’m putting a little too much faith in them. All they really need to do is work on the online features. That has to be the game’s selling point, otherwise we’ll probably just get another 3S:XBox Live Edition or something. Sorry, but I can’t answer this question without sounding a bit uncertain.
The only true gamebreaking glitch in the oldtype version is Ken killing Makoto with neutral grab, but players have learned not to use it and tournaments ban this finish too. The rest aren’t that important, nor do they really affect the tiers that much. They might help benefit the character(Akuma’s f.MP, Makoto’s neutral grab/karakusa/SA3), but can be overcome with just solid play. Sometimes it’s fun to trigger some of these bugs, though. I laughed my ass off when Remy froze Urien during that one match vid.
The PS2 version is playable, but there are some combos or reversals that either don’t work anymore or do work when they shouldn’t. Not to mention the slightly faster gamespeed has been known to throw off the timing of arcade-only players. It may not seem much, but in the heat of the moment those things can matter, which is why a lot of arcade 3S players don’t like the PS2 version.

Ryu24 · 2010-09-19T04:48:09.000Z

whats so scary about sean?
i know how to parry his basketballs.

Kanzaki · 2010-09-20T05:30:26.000Z

Gaijinblaze:

i’m sure they can program the cpu to do higher-damage bnbs in clear punishment situations (blocked uppercuts, supers, etc.) based on 11 years of 3S matches. i believe tekken 5 did a similar thing. they collected information based on players in the arcade, and programmed it as AI in one of the home versions. or they can let you record the dummy and use your inputs as a combo that the cpu will use. i don’t know how to implement any mind game processes but anything’s better than the current state. maybe your whiffed pokes can trigger attempted counter pokes, and it can be programmed to choose from a tree of logical choices while attacking (ken does typical low chain then either dash throw, c.mk, s.hk, attempt jump-in… but if the chain hit, he supers) and so on.

tbh, if the AI was similar to what it is now but generally more damaging, less random/psychic, and quickrising and air parrying more, it’ll make a big difference. i hope they can at least do that.

oh and if colour edit does make it in, let there be an option for players to disable an opponent’s custom palette (on your own screen). having to stare at people’s joke costumes in cvs2 probably wasn’t that fun.

I agree. After all these years, Capcom still manages to do bad AI. They should be able to incorporate ‘ghost ai’ in their games. They have the ability to record all the player’s input (SSF4). I don’t know if it’s because of time and money - but a little improvment would be nice. In SF4, they could have made the AI do the BNB of the chars (ex : Ryu’s DP FADC Ultra). They should use the example made in VF4 Evo. That could give you a little practice using a character before going online. Anyway, that’s my 2 cents

Alexander · 2010-09-20T14:30:37.000Z

I think that comes down to not enough time and money to do ghost A.I. And it wouldn’t be fair to the scrubs who just got the game for Xmas and have to fight a Ryu with Daigo A.I. in SF4.

circle_masher · 2010-09-20T21:37:01.000Z

Alexander:

I think that comes down to not enough effort to do ghost A.I.

Fixed.

Alexander:

And it wouldn’t be fair to the scrubs who just got the game for Xmas and have to fight a Ryu with Daigo A.I. in SF4.

That’s what varying degrees of difficulty are for.

Muskau · 2010-09-21T03:07:35.000Z

After reading some of the responses to this thread, I’ll have to agree now with the posters above, even if 3S gets a rebalancing treatment, the problem of two different version of 3S would be a problem for anyone playing online with good netcode. I still think the game would be interesting if small tweaks could be made. But for the good of players who just want 3S online I’d have to say for the moment it shouldn’t be on the table.

Some japanese players might also boycott the new version. Unless it got a mass arcade release and a LOAD of extensive testing. Unless Capcom were to throw a HUUGE amount of money at it then it would just seem like a half assed version. In fact why not just make a SF3:4R or SF5 if they were going that far.

Forget Upgrades I mean the biggest problems right now for an Online version would be the simple things:

Arcade Perfect (Lock up bugs fixed)
Top Netcode and Matchmaking service

TheMuffinMan · 2010-09-23T06:34:12.000Z

I feel like I’m daydreaming by adding this, but I’d love to see the Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution training/tutorial mode in 3rd Strike. This way the new breed of players will be able to get their foot in the door rather easily by learning and implementing the fundamentals. For those that are unfamiliar, the VF4: EVO tutorial/training mode had everything from how to deal with high/low/throw mixups, using frame advantage and disadvantage, comboing from awkward situations (counter hits or trades), and tons more! And it was character specific!

Anyway, aside from that fantasy, I wouldn’t like to a remixed (rebalanced) version of 3rd Strike unless its done by Capcom of Japan. That’s all

Alexander · 2010-09-23T22:17:01.000Z

Yeah, I’d like a training mode like that too. Someone made the suggestion that there should be a user-generated challenge mode. That would work too. I assume that if it is rebalanced that the Japs would handle it and would almost entirely take input by the high level Jap players.

Alexander · 2010-09-23T22:17:16.000Z

Yeah, I’d like a training mode like that too. Someone made the suggestion that there should be a user-generated challenge mode. That would work too. I assume that if it is rebalanced that the Japs would handle it and would almost entirely take input by the high level Jap players.

Gaijinblaze · 2010-09-25T04:49:34.000Z

Kanzaki:

I agree. After all these years, Capcom still manages to do bad AI. They should be able to incorporate ‘ghost ai’ in their games. They have the ability to record all the player’s input (SSF4). I don’t know if it’s because of time and money - but a little improvment would be nice. In SF4, they could have made the AI do the BNB of the chars (ex : Ryu’s DP FADC Ultra). They should use the example made in VF4 Evo. That could give you a little practice using a character before going online. Anyway, that’s my 2 cents

quoting that ancient post reminded me that this game was announced 2 months ago and they still haven’t told us anything about it. if they’re going to screw up the game i wish they’d just say it already so i can spread out the anguish over a longer time.

alien_nose_job · 2010-09-25T16:10:52.000Z

^^^^
just repeating something you said a few pages back that made lots of sense, improving the AI would really help new people to get aboard, never thought of that, but they sure could let the CPU to use the BnBs and punish obvious mistakes that are soooooo common like blocked srk, whiffs, etc…
Also, being able to disable someone’s custom palettes and force yours on your screen while playing online should be mandatory if we get custom colours, first you sure will come across tons of horrible pals.
Still there should be some way to share and exchange online.

Mr_List · 2010-09-26T02:45:50.000Z

‘online edition’ may hint that their focus lies else where that single player AI ,methinks.

DoctaMario · 2010-09-26T04:20:54.000Z

I said this in the other thread, but I really doubt they’re going to change much. If anything, it’ll probably be a port of the Dreamcast version with netcode. All the folks pining for a rebalance are wasting their breath.

Alexander · 2010-09-26T05:47:56.000Z

For something a little different; what if the devs bring back the stages from New Generation and 2nd impact? I always liked the hot springs stage, the train from 2I, and the collapsible bridge.Plus they could make Gill’s stage and Sean’s training stage selectable.

aku · 2010-09-26T22:13:05.000Z

Alexander:

For something a little different; what if the devs bring back the stages from New Generation and 2nd impact? I always liked the hot springs stage, the train from 2I, and the collapsible bridge.Plus they could make Gill’s stage and Sean’s training stage selectable.

Well, I admit it would be a nice little treat. The backgrounds from NG and 2I were more colorful and lively.

Still, I wouldn’t mind either way. The backgrounds for 3S fit the mood much better in my opinion. Simple with little distractions, only paying attention to the fight, while still having some interesting details for some observational fun(sup wit da headz in urien stage lol).