HAV
8901
That article you linked didn’t disprove shit. It ranted about a bunch of nonsense.
Nobody in their right mind can blame Black people for the actual legislative measure passing. The Black electorate simply isn’t large enough for that to be the case. However, the percentage in which Black people voted Yes on 8 is remarkable. That’s the issue. The article linked addressed that in the first point, but failed to actually, demonstrably shoot down the notion. The author merely speculated that the info may not have been right. Without solid evidence on where the samples were taken place, the author cannot make any claim against the legitimacy of the sampling, stronger than what CNN can make for its legitimacy. So I’m inclined to believe in the sampling (it may not be completely accurate, but I doubt it’s too far off). CNN sample or not, just in dealing with Black people in general (yeah, yeah, I know we’re not one monolith. That’s evident by the fact that I’m Black, but I am disagreeing with other Blacks right now), it’s clear that we are homophobic, and we don’t support gay rights the way we should.
Are Black people entirely to blame for 8 passing? No. I’m not in Cali, but the overall theme is that the No on 8 folks fucked up. That’s been stated plenty of times. My issue with Black people is that, given little or even zero promotion from No-On-8-ers, we should come out in support of social justice anyway. The fact that we don’t, and instead we try to oppress another group… well, it sickens me. The hypocrisy is off the charts.
The notion that all opposition to gay marriage stems from religious dogma is false. Though a lot of Southerners say “mah bobble right her says them queers shoodna eben be doin their sinnin,” there are plenty of intelligent atheists who provide intelligent arguments against gay marriage. I, personally, am pro-gay marriage. But there are plenty of secular arguments that can be made against it.
Honestly guys have ya’ll every stopped and thought that MAYBE the question on whether to vote yes or no on Prop. 8 was worded differently in a sense that it confused people specifically African Americans.
I dunno massah what all these symbols mean I jussa wanna get back eat me sum wadamelon.
Seriously though even though black voted against it in a huge majority so did the other races. Those exit polls disagree with the results. It’s the bradley effect with gays except only the black people were honest with whom they voted with.
Considering what Havoc mention, does anyone think that this issue with gay rights will have a major affect on the next election, especially for Obama? I know blacks aren’t to blame, but the media is making it out to be. I completely understand the comparison with gay and black rights and I think we all should defend our rights as people, but some people base their choices on religious beliefs(Me include). I can honestly say I would support their rights as a human being, but I can’t support their decision to live that way and that’s all I’m going to say on the religious aspect of it cause I don’t want another infraction.
It’s almost the same thing with immigration. Alot of black people I know were very reluctant to have someone in this country who is more then likely worse off then we are trying to make something of themselves. IDK , but that shit never sat well with me.
Unless there was overwhelming support for gay marriage, then you’re incorrect, a strong black majority of voters could definitely overturn a highly-contested bill, precisely like this. But this was not the case. The majority of people, regardless of race, are opposed to gay marriage. When gay marriage was looking to be approved in Connecticut, the majority of people in the state were opposed to it, and…well…there just aren’t that many black people in Connecticut.
So indeed, it’s not like it can be said that blacks single-handedly shut down gay marriage.
Probably not. Especially as the incumbent. It’s very unlikely that somebody who is in favor of gay marriage will be put forward by the Republicans.
Shusty
8907
Blame religion for the passing of prop. 8. Consequently, many black people are religious.
I was actually thinking of the Independent party. They might play a major factor in the next election, especially if they are in favor of gay marriage.
I doubt that gay marriage will end up being such a colossal issue that it could break Obama. Especially seeing how effectively the media downplayed the issue this election.
But hey, that’s what they said about Ralph Nader.
That is pretty much the key. Honetly marriage should have no TAX breaks or other benefits because there’s supposed to be a seperation of church and state. Religiously speaking it is wrong for gays to be married. If marriage was simply a bond between you, you’re wife, and God then gay marriage would not be an issue because it’s simply a religious tradition that has no place in law. The problem comes because gays get discriminated against since they can’t achieve the same legal benefits that come with a marriage. Benefits that should not exist under the seperaion of church and state.
Marriage is a secular phenomenon.
It definitely will be an issue for the gay population and if you have someone like the Independant party come straight out the gate saying they are in favor of gay marriage then he/she will win over their vote. I’m not saying they will win the election, but those if most of the gay community that sided with Obama cause of the Republican’s views on gay marriage will definitely side with the Independant party.
Oh yeah Nadar is done.
Shusty
8913
What world you living on? Yes, I’m aware that a monogamy relationship was a natural emergent, but marriage has been a religious ideal from the start. The meaning of marriage is the covenant of a man, woman, and God.
I get what you’re saying, but I don’t see there being the sort of turnover that is likely to occur.
While in its original and purest form, marriage had religious undertones, the fact is that every society in the world has marriage, even the ones that oppose religion. You can get married in a courthouse, and you can get married in China. It’s not a religious thing anymore.
I really don’t see what the big deal is.
I personally think Gay people should have every right that I have, however I don’t think Obama can help them right now because its not like segregation in the south which someone just decided was right. There was a VOTE on the same day he was elected. The people of the respective states for whatever fucked up reason spoke up and said no to gay marriage. What gay rights advocates need to do is change the minds of the people, because as a President if Obama starts going against the will of the people (and the vote) it makes him no better than George W Bush.
That’s what I was thinking. It’s fucked up no doubt about it, but what can you do other then what BlackShinobi said.
Eh, except sometimes the President might need to make decisions that aren’t immedeatly popular. Also, the consitution is in place in order to protect minorities from the majority.
Shusty
8919
Your point was marriage is a secular phenomenon. I was saying that marriage was actually created and founded by religion. I agree that it has become secular and religious.
Nut job is actually correct on this one, alot of religions support marriage, but marriage itself exists as more of a social creation. Keeping men from fucking everyone they possibly can works out in everyone’s favor especially when it comes to providing for and raising the next generation.
If all of your kids are with one woman that women can take care of the kids while you go out and provide for them its just a better system than having 5 kid by 5 women. Especially 3,000 or 2,000 or even 1,000 years ago.
And then theres the fact that woman are crazy.
Anyway the point is just because religion likes it doesn’t mean its religious. To be honest its just smart or at least more efficient.
