Niah
8
just remember, teching with cr.mp can be countered with lv2 focus, especially with delayed teching with cr.mp. becareful when they figure it out.
Claw Strike, Dude don’t worry about it lol, still really valuable information and maybe someone else will come across this post and it will help them out, I think this is a sort advanced/intermediate part of SF and fighting games in general and correctly understanding frame traps and what to do against them is a bridge between a beginner and more aadvanced player.
Niah, super helpful as usual on these boards. Lvl 2 focus is just another layer to worry about ha, thank you
Haztlan
10
crMP is also -4 on block. Can’t quite use it against characters that can punish it.
However, cl.MK is 5 frames start up and +2 on block… same with cr.MK but at 6 frames of start up. Probably not the best options, but his wake up options kind of suck anyway.
Alright cool thanks. Also is RCF > FADC +4? Just wondering so I can figure out what I can get off it. And I was wondering if someone can help me with a resource for which of his normas are chainable (So far it seems all his combos and block strings are just links) and which ones are sp/su/ultra cancelable. In these frame data apps, I see things like sp, su in the cancelable column but idk what su*- means, as in wtf is the * or - ssymbols for.
Niah
13
sp = special cancelable
su = super cancelable
rcf > fadc is +3 for mp version, +5 for everything else.
nothing is chainable
he has no block strings. btw, block strings means you don’t leave any gaps in you attack so they can’t mash dp. you can jump into cr.lp to lp roll for a block string.
rcf, and cr.mp. the only times you should ever super cancel is from either of those. red focus from rcf or st.hk to land ultra or whatever.
sp = special cancel, su = super cancel. * = cancel on first hit only
If you’re going to spend meter on RCF > FADC might as well spend the extra meter stock (3 meters) for Red Focus which when used in a combo, will instantly crumple your opponent, opening them up for some Ultra whoop ass. Now, because of damage scaling you only get 400 or so for 3 meters plus a full Ultra meter, but if you’re being pressured in a corner and you crouch/delay tech pressure AND the damage will finish the round or win the match, definitely spend it. Otherwise, you are better off with a raw Ultra. If you regular FADC then you would have to do risky links, but at least they’d earn you some meter back.
Vega has no block strings. His best is +2 on block and he has nothing that starts up fast enough to continue putting the opponent in block stun. This means, if they block and you throw out another jab for example, you will eat reversal. A neat trick though is to use close MK (+2) on block and then kara throw. If done right it’s a 1 frame window for them to reversal, they can’t jab, because throw is active the next frame and at least 2 frames before a 3 frame jab is active. They can tech, but you’ll get pushed back and gain some space. If their timing is good, they can reversal in that 1 frame window, but if their timing is inconsistent it might be worth throwing out. It is not guaranteed, but can be difficult to get out of.
whoops, niah beat me to it
Niah
16
reversals don’t need to be timed properly, it’s very lenient.
Yeah 
That SF4 engine. 5 frame window? How does that work? Say I give someone a single window to reversal, that means the game gives the player that single window + 5?
So even though he doesnt have true block strings because everything is links, if you do the same link sequences, there should really be max like 2 frame windows, so they shouldnt be able to DP inbetween Vegas strings right? or does the fact that you get the reversal mean you just blow it up with invincibility?
Niah
19
you could bait the dp, but if you were to do cr.lp, cr.lp, he CAN mash dp, and yes, because of invincibility. because the dp will be hitting you when you are pushing the 2nd cr.lp.
the reversal window means you can do the input before you recover. think of it like OS. pretty much the same thing. it’s an engine that helps charge characters so they don’t have to do the reversals frame perfect.
Ah, so that’s how the window works. I guess that’s good to know? 5 frames is still far too much reversal time.
Ok, so DP is just always invincible on startup. I was thinking Vegas strings, as long as they were less than 3 frames, since thats the startup for DP, wouldnt be punishable and then they would get counter hit. And I never see anyone ever DP in between Vegas normal strings, why not? It seems super cheep to blow up even 1 frame block strings when you have 5 frames to reversal it
Not in tourneys, I watch fuck loads of them though
Niah
24
it doesn’t matter if it has 1, 2, 3 or whatever frame gap there is. because it’s +1 on block, you recover 1 frame faster. press a 4 frame move, like a cr.lp again, it’s a 3 frame gap. even if it’s a 2 frame gap, if he inputs dp, you’ll get hit as long as you pressed another button again. if you don’t, then you’ll block it. it’s not a “punish”. it’s all because of the invincibility. but if someone was to press a none invincible 3 frame attack as a reversal, kike dudley’s hp dp, then it would matter. if there was a 3 frame gap, it will trade. if there’s a 2 frame gap, dudley would get counter hitted.
as for why people don’t spam dp when vega is pressuring? well, it’s a guess. what if that vega only pressed it once to bait out the dp? or maybe the lp can be too fast for him top initiate the dp, because he’ll need to give up blocking for a split frame? even if you have meter to fadc the dp, what if the vega simply flips to bait your dp? many vega’s would press a light attack, back off, kara throw, or back off, do another light attack to bait these dp’s. once a person mashes that dp, the vega player will get hit by it once, then the vega player will know “ok, this guy spams dp” so he will counter it by baiting. these things aren’t react-able. people can’t tell when the vega player will continue on with another cr.lp after the first one.
The problem isn’t really DP in that situation though, it’s the moves that are invincible on start up that also have forward momentum. Then you’re stuck blocking and potentially knocked down.
Niah, thanks so much. I’m now trying to hash out EXACTLY what I can get off of various confirms (clearly a marvel player lol) and iv noticed that even though most of his normals are special cancelable, it’s very finicky with which versions of ST will work from which normals. So far light version seems to only work off of crouch short and the heavy version works off most things, same as EX. Also it’s cool they changed his super to hit on the way up, now you can take regular combos that go into ex fba and do super instead
lk.ST is pretty worthless in a combo. Not really combos into it except cr.LK as you saw. Unless you only need a single hit for spacing or to combo into EX ST, always use hk.ST. It’s also not great as an AA because it isn’t active very long, the others are better than it, but is useful for closer jump ins. Probably will trade in that situation though, but trades are usually favorable to ST and it also launches them up and gives you time to recover.
