By what crazy logic? The logic that the word “icon” has a specific meaning? The logic that in order for something to be iconic, it has to have a universally understood meaning, because that is what it is to be an icon by definition?
No superhero has ever achieved the level of cultural visibility that Superman has. It might not even be possible, considering that Superman was already a household name before the first generation to read a Barry Allen comic was even born. Batman has come close, mostly due to his popularity as a television character in the 1960s. That was the moment when Batman went from being in comic books to being everywhere.
(If anyone wonders why comic art is still thought of in a pejorative sense by those outside of comics culture, it is largely because the 1960s Batman show defined how non-comics people think of comics, and nothing since then has been able to shake that definition. Not even the Christopher Nolan Batman movies, which self-consciously avoid the comic book aesthetic that the 1960s show reveled in, thus giving people the impression that comics are not capable of delivering stories of the quality that the movies do.)
I think superhero fans badly overestimate the level of currency that these characters have in the world.
Are you high? Batman is FAR more popular and iconic than Superman is today. Batman is everything DC right now and you are grossly underestimating him. People complain that his SIDEKICKS are too popular and get too many comicbooks made about them.
You basically just said a whole lot of nothing then went on a brief history rambling. Catwoman is very iconic and so is Joker and so is Lex Luthor and ESPECIALLY Wonder Woman plus a gauntlet of other characters.
Heroes don’t need to represent a specific meaning, Mario doesn’t stand for shit besides getting some Princess pussy but he is iconic. The heroes I named are still Icons as well.
I’m a Batman fan, but Superman has been an Icon for 70 years. And yes he is the most Iconic superhero in history. While many people don’t like Superman because they believe he’s flat and one dimensional, he’s still great. I think the reason people have gravitated to Batman and Marvel heroes is because these heroes seem darker and “realer” than Superman. However the touch of realism in Batman in movies is easy to do because he was a victim of witnessing a tragedy. So it’s very easy for people to relate to Batman. Batman is the only movie that carries its own weight beyond being a super hero movie, and had set standards by which all superhero films and cartoons are measured.
This doesn’t mean Superman is shallow. On the contrary, he’s also a victim of tragedy. He was too young to remember it of course and he didn’t witness it first hand. But Superman struggles with trying to pretend to be human. And the reason he’s a boyscout is due to a strong moral conviction which is explored thoroughly in the books. I really wish directors would try to make a Superman movie more modern and show the super heroes depth without the dark and depressing stuff. Oftentimes it appears it’s hard to illustrate depth in fictional characters without making stories too dark or tragic. But once they get someone who can write that type of story, I swear Superman will surpass Batman this generation.
but Superman has been more popular than Batman for too many generations. Batman popularity may have eclipsed Superman’s in the last 20 years or so. But Supeman has been more popular than Batman and other super heros for well over 50 years.
All of this history shit is obvious, I’m talking about right now. Right now Batman is a bigger legend and a bigger Icon meanwhile Superman can’t even get a cartoon since the early 90’s. Batman’s show got canceled and they had screenshots of his new show in 3d before the last 10 episodes of brave and the bold was over.
Superman’s problem isn’t that he’s one dimensional because he isn’t. His problem is he’s broken, nothing can stop him, and he’ll never really die so there’s no reason for people to be invested in HIM.
I get what your saying about Supes history but in today world Bats is tops.
I don’t need to explain that more than Batman and Superman is iconic from DC. That is a crazy statement and is incorrect imo.
Joker is Iconic and so are many other DC characters. People have been wearing them on their underwear and dressing up as them for decades. People who have never read a comic book known who they are and what they look like.
Then your opinion is worthless. If you’re not willing to explain why you’re taking the position you’ve taken or provide evidence for it, then there’s no reason why anybody should give you any credence at all.
Uhm, Supes has died before and tons of stuff can and has stopped him outside of Kryptonite. Shit seems like niggas haven’t picked up a comic since the Silver Age.
I’m not preaching the word of Superman right now. I’m pointing out–objectively, factually–that somebody is using a word incorrectly. One of the number one things wrong with the comic book industry right now is that words like “icon” and “relevant” are parroted by people who don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about. They can be useful and descriptive words, or they can be meaningless buzz words. I prefer the former. DiDio and his squadron of sausage snorkelers prefer the latter.
Wait, Shatterstar is gay? We’re talking the srk poster Shatter? I thought he was all about fat bottomed girls all the time. That’s more entertaining to learn than any DC character being gay, now.
Superman is the definitive image people have when they think of comics, the term"superman"is used commonly as a expression world wide and even with all the recent releases of new super hero movies,games and tv shows people still equate the super hero genre with superman…in fact any work of fiction with characters displaying super powers is indirectly related to superman. Batman and several other comic characters might be more persistent and relevant today but to go as far as saying they are more iconic or well established is just silly. Superman is the standard and template when it comes to comics or even just fictional characters in general, and not just regionally but literally across the entire globe. Its unlikely he will ever be surpassed in terms of his status in pop culture… like even the freaking president of the united states made mention of him during 1 of his speeches to the nation lol.
If gays don’t act differently, aren’t “faries” or whatever. What can possibly be added by who he dates? If it’s Superman Lex would start stealing Jimmy Olsen and he’d just save him instead. whoop-de-doo.
(Almost no one factors that for reasons that Wellman is probably correct about, unfortunately.)
Yeah, it’s pretty sad that this is still a “relevant” issue. Also, yeah, I’m not touching the “icon” talk.
I feel like I was going to say more, but now I can’t remember…
Good to know that Obsidian and Jade are potentially still around/coming back, but I’m not exactly holding my breath on that happening or Alan Scott becoming an important character whose gay remains “relevant” yet not caricatured or constantly rammed…down people’s throats. (Fuck you, I’m not changing that analogy.)
It largely depends on long the writer who wants to do this stays around and his actual ability in addition to what the company will actually let them do. Tons of comic book writers have wanted to do awesome things…only for them to never get to do them and then have the next writer (or one further down the line) to fuck things up massively.
Looking at you, third Summers brother.
Haha. I can just imagine now someone asking him to that very thing so they can go talk to Elongated Man…while Plastic Man is in the same room or vice versa. Hell, trying to talk to Creeper or mute Cassandra Cain or even the Wonder Twins (or any of the minority caricatures) would probably be a lot more entertaining than trying to talk to Superfriends Aquaman.
When no one was looking, Lex Luthor stole 40 jimmies. That’s as many as four tens.
I’d wager I’ve read more than you have lol. Superman doesn’t really die because he came back fast as hell at was back to being in the justice league like nothing happened. At least when Batman died it was kinda maybe plausible that he’d be gone for a while because he had realistic replacements.
There isn’t a sub for Superman so everyone knows he always lives. That above all others is what holds superman behind Batman in most peoples eyes. Supes villains are underrated tho.
(Ugh. I need to finish my project and updating this computer today.)
Blast it all. I thought I responded to this despite not wanting to get into this icon talk.
There’s so much wrong with this, attempts at starting an anecdotal pissing contest about who reads more comics aside:
Even if Superman did come back relatively quickly and reintegrated rather quickly (why wouldn’t he?) with his stupid mullet, the point was that they killed Superman off in the first place, which got international attention. The “Death of Superman” was reported in the freaking papers, which is pretty much unheard for fictional characters (still).
Heh at Batman’s death being “kinda maybe plausible”. Being zapped through time by a “God of Evil” who makes you live through multiple, worsening reincarnations is a “kinda maybe plausible” “death”? Really?
Batman having more plausible replacements than Superman, who got at least four “replacements” when he “died”, did nothing to stop people from realizing it was only a matter of time before Batman came back, especially since he wasn’t even really “dead” per se (as I understand, not having bothered with any comics in the past five years, much less Crisis bullshit). They literally have nothing to do with each other just simply because everyone is so jaded to Comic Book Deaths, knowing that they’re mostly meaningless, especially the more popular the character is; comics are already doing poorly as it is, no way in hell they’re going to kill off their cash-cows, especially when the big-two’s comics themselves aren’t finite.
The above also applies for why saying Batman is more popular than Superman on those grounds is a fallacy. Batman only has the illusion of vulnerability, especially since he’s been written more and more as BatGod, who is basically prepared for everything, when like two or three decades ago he taken out semi-regularly by chairs to the face. Batman is more popular than Superman for two or three reasons: Batman has the illusion of being “only human” whereas as Superman is invulnerable, Batman’s cartoon series was a lot more popular than Superman’s cartoons and Superman is written poorly a lot more regularly than Batman. None of that has anything to do with Batman being more likely to die.
Outside of Parasite, Superman’s villains that aren’t well-known do rather suck. Can you even name five other villains of his that people don’t know besides Parasite? Obviously you can’t use Lex Luthor, Darkseid or Doomsday there, despite the fact that the latter two job the more they recur. I’ll give you a head start and accept Brainiac even though he’s arguably borderline, especially since he appeared in Smallville as I understand it.
Still not going to bother talking about iconic stuff, though, especially if this is what you’re basing your understanding of “icon” off of.
Hey. A threesome. With twins. Even better (for people who like threesomes).