Dan Strategies and Match-ups

[Hawk]

If you want a ridiculously tight link, you can also jump into an instant EX Danku…

The link is that bad? It doesn’t seem that way. I’ve had way more problems getting out the HK Danku juggle.

EDIT: Also, how the heck do I get out of G3? I’ve been stuck here for eons unable to find any matches whatsoever.

EDIT MK.II: A couple of things I forgot - Ultra off of reversal AA focus is probably the coolest shenanigan I’ve come across. Hard to set up for but so awesome when it lands. Also, what can I do after an AA KRK? The same options I have off of a FADC’d KRK? I’ve just been doing EX Gadoken for the amusement factor.

[Pasqual]

Here’s the vid I promised a while back of Dan’s jHK crossing up and linking to Ultra.

[media=youtube]EW0rrmaBKv8[/media]

Risky but it’s there. Enjoy!

[Sugami]

What’s the rough frame advantage on that? Do you have one on landing?

No idea, it’s pretty impossible to tell You’re still rising when you hit them but they still have to do that little mid-air flip before descending.

The link is that bad? It doesn’t seem that way. I’ve had way more problems getting out the HK Danku juggle.

EDIT: Also, how the heck do I get out of G3? I’ve been stuck here for eons unable to find any matches whatsoever.

EDIT MK.II: A couple of things I forgot - Ultra off of reversal AA focus is probably the coolest shenanigan I’ve come across. Hard to set up for but so awesome when it lands. Also, what can I do after an AA KRK? The same options I have off of a FADC’d KRK? I’ve just been doing EX Gadoken for the amusement factor.

You just have to be quick with jumping and doing EX Dankuu like in Ken’s Hard #5 trial but from what I’ve seen you only seem to land one hit so really not worth it.

That’s why I got myself to G2 a while back, so won’t be stuck with no one to play but I don’t play Championship Mode anymore anyways

Reversal AA focus? If it is a reversal it’ll break focus so I don’t know what you’re talking about x_x;; EX Kouryuken would do more damage than EX Gadouken but still not an aweful lot of added damage for the meter, I’d rather just use HP version as AA and not bother with the juggle. If you catch them almost directly above you you may be able to land a Dankuu, best to go with MK version in case you don’t so they can’t quick getup and hit you whilst you’re still recovering.

Here’s the vid I promised a while back of Dan’s jHK crossing up and linking to Ultra.

[media=youtube]EW0rrmaBKv8[/media]

Risky but it’s there. Enjoy!

I imagine it’s character specific too. You wouldn’t link into Ultra unless you just jumped over a fireball and therefore knew the j.HK would land

[Hawk]

Reversal AA focus? If it is a reversal it’ll break focus so I don’t know what you’re talking about x_x;;

I guess a counter hit then? What I’m referring to is when you smack somebody in the air with a focus attack and they’re sent twirling away instead of just falling back.

[Kikuichimonji]

There are five things you can try after a lp koryu AA.

[list]
[]EX Koryu for 60 damage, fairly reliable
[]EX Gadouken for 60? damage, equally reliable
[]Air EX Danku, I’ve never tried it
[]Immediately HK Danku. Your lp koryu has to hit really meaty for this to work, though
[]Neutral j.mp. I don’t know if this connects with spacing though.
[]Has anyone ever tried to do air hk danku? I wanna try that now.
[/list]

[Pasqual]

I imagine it’s character specific too. You wouldn’t link into Ultra unless you just jumped over a fireball and therefore knew the j.HK would land

You are right, it is character specific, albeit the only character I know off the top of my head I couldn’t get the link on was Seth. I used Dhalsim for the vid… because it’s pretty easy on him, to be honest.

[Sugami]

I guess a counter hit then? What I’m referring to is when you smack somebody in the air with a focus attack and they’re sent twirling away instead of just falling back.

That’s just hitting them in the air with a Focus Attack. FA1 think they just plop to the ground, FA2 they spin a little and have juggle properties so it’s possible to connect a Kouryuken if you’re quick enough, FA3 makes them spin for miles and gives them “free juggle” properties allowing for Ultra to land otherwise it’s easy to hit them with a Kouryuken.

There are five things you can try after a lp koryu AA.

[list]
[]EX Koryu for 60 damage, fairly reliable
[]EX Gadouken for 60? damage, equally reliable
[]Air EX Danku, I’ve never tried it
[]Immediately HK Danku. Your lp koryu has to hit really meaty for this to work, though
**[]Neutral j.mp. I don’t know if this connects with spacing though.
[]Has anyone ever tried to do air hk danku? I wanna try that now.
**[/list]

n.j.MP always connects, you just have to be quick on the timing but the spacing is fine.

Can’t remember who said it but it’s around these forums somewhere, when it comes to Dankuu juggles the first hit can’t juggle but the second and third can. So the problem with trying to use air Dankuu other than EX is the first hit can’t connect and obviously the follow-ups would be too slow to land

I’m hoping EX Kouryuken will allow both hits to juggle in SSF4 shakes fist

[Kikuichimonji]

Yeah, anti-air level 3 focus -> ultra is really easy and really really good.

FA1 puts them into a limited juggle state. Pretty sure something like EX Koryu would work for one hit. FA2 is anything juggles. Usually a hp koryuken is your best bet because they don’t stay in the air for long. FA3 I haven’t tested with Dan but I would guess hp koryuken would be best without ultra.

Let’s talk about mindgames/setups for the Knee of Justice. In case anyone doesn’t know, if you try to do the knee too close it will whiff on some crouching characters. cr.lk xx knee, cr.lp xx knee, s.lp xx knee, and cr.mp xx knee all have this problem up close. The thing is, you want to be close enough to land the knee but not quite so close that you don’t get any frame advantage on block. I’ve figured out that the best solution is to start off my strings with cr.mk xx knee. It never whiffs and it hits low too. Close s.mp has great blockstun for the knee, but I believe it too can make the knee whiff at point-blank range and obviously you have to be close to do it. Cr.mk is great because it always gives you the spacing you want for non-whiffing and frame advantage on the followup.

So here’s an example of a danku string for me.

Crossup j.mk -> cr.mk xx lk danku -> s.mp xx lk danku -> cr.lk xx lk danku (now I’m at point blank range again) -> cr.mk xx lk danku…

So basically you want to use the slowest normal you can get away with so that you can get the maximum amount of pushback. However, it’s possible to be jabbed out of the cr.mk if you’re only +1 or +2 on block (which is how you’ll be up close), so that’s when you need to use cr.lk, koryuken FADC, or throw.

Up close I’m going to start doing neutral jump lk danku in my strings because it beats throw tech. Neutral j.hp is also a great way to apply pressure and get a mixup out of the string. This sets up empty jump throw/cr.lk/late danku later. If you’re feeling ballsy, obviously you can go for a crossup or jump-in during the string.

Being DP’d out of a string is not as big a deal as you might think. Most DPs will trade with your Knee in your favor because you’ll get tagged with the anti-air hit. And if you quick stand you can dash back in to be in s.mk range again. However, getting DP’d out of your normal leading up to the knee is a big deal. To beat this, you need to throw in delayed cr.lk’s, koryuken fadc, backdashes (Dan’s backdash is sexy good), and really just guessing. Doing cr.lk or cr.mk after a very plus on block knee is important too because if there’s no reversal window for them to DP they eat the normal for free because they’re obviously not blocking. This encourages them to block.

Sometimes you want to end a string with a gadouken so that you can stop from becoming predictable. Normals cancelled into gadoukens are good frame traps even if they push the opponent back. Follow it up with an EX/ hk danku if you want to get back in. Gadouken FADCs can pay off immensely in blockstrings, but they are kinda a guess.

cr.mp xx lk danku crosses up Dictator and Akuma at point blank range. I believe meaty knee crosses up balrog on wakeup.

In case anyone doesn’t know, lk knee is basically the best and safest meaty in the goddamn game. It won’t whiff, it will be plus on block massively, and it will beat almost all DPs in the game or make them whiff so you can punish.

[Krackatoa]

Here’s a little tidbit for the record.

If you find yourself landing the Koryuken FADC n.j.MP with your opponent in the corner, a s.FP or cr.MK will end up being real meaty if you throw it out as you land. Good for keeping pressure if you’re expecting them to not mash out DP.

[Sugami]

c.MK xx Knee sounds like a good option in that case then :tup:

[D-bus]

Forgive me if this already in the thread, but im having issues with my Saikyo, =P. Lately, especially when i go up against characters like Sagat when i get a knockdown i always feel extremely intimidated and usually mess up what im going to do next or always guess wrong in fear of whatever im going to do is gonna get beat horribly. Is it Sagat’s large health pool? That hes towering over me with his horrible depth perception but still manages to combo and trade into ultra? I don’t know, but it just seems like my options are much more limited as to what i can do when facing Sagat in comparison to other characters.

Any tips in general are also appreciated. I’m really planning to place in the next tournament i attend, which won’t be until late January or February. A pipe dream at best i know, but I’m gonna try damnit.

[Xiahou_Mao]

Sagat is very ugly, so that’s probably what you’re feeling. It’s not intimidation, it’s disgust. Really, who wants to be looking at a big one-eyed scarred circus freak with a far too unhealthy obsession with tigers?

When you get a knockdown on Sagat, and he doesn’t have an Ultra, don’t be afraid to bring the Knee. The Tiger Uppercut will either beat it or trade with it, but if you can condition him to do wakeup Tiger Uppercuts, that gives you free blocks and punishes down the road. Alternately, Sagat has no real defense against crossups, so practice the timing to cross him up after you knock him down. That way you can keep him on the defensive, which is where you want him to be.

Against Sagat, you want to try to provoke him into making mistakes and then punish those mistakes heavily. You want to get into his face and then stay there (be quick to tech his throws, lest he toss you out once more). You want to wind up making him look like a random XBL reversal masher while you calmly and deliberately take him down. I’m sure that’s easier said than done against the really good Sagats, but lets face it, most Sagats aren’t really good. You can’t let them get into your head before the game, or else they’ve already won.

Next tournament, tell yourself that you’re better than they are because you’re Dan and Dan’s awesome. Don’t necessarily tell them that, but tell yourself.

[Sugami]

A backdash can’t escape a Tiger Uppercut, can it?

Cross-ups are great unless he gets a McReversal and flips him around >.> Vertical jumps might actually make Tiger Uppercuts go under them.

When you want him to waste meter fake aggression, whiff lots of moves when he’s on the ground but be out of throw range and get ready to block a TU FADC, and then tech the throw

[Shiroiken]

For those of you who can read other players well, here’s a pretty effective strategy against Zangief (because he’s one of Dan’s worst match ups). I use it all the time online.

Problem: Can’t get in close (where you want to be) and apply pressure without getting SPD/grabbed
Observation: Gief players usually have trouble doing a 360 motion fast enough
Solution: Do a jump-in lk and throw immediately. Repeat this until they can figure out a way to block your tactic (sadly some never do).

After they go down, if they:

1. buffer SPD while on ground, jump-in lk and KRK immediately or their SPD will get you
2. neutral jump and headbutt (to prevent jump-in), dash/hk danku/ex danku while they’re in mid-air to catch them as they come down with throw/combo
3. start doing SPDs fast enough to grab you before you can throw them, start doing jump-in lk and KRK immediately, it will always beat out a SPD/grab
4. start teching your throws after jump-in lk, do a KRK on the next jump-in to punish them

After you go down, if they:

1. jump back and forth between you (to buffer SPD), dash away when you get up (KRK can be blocked if they empty jump so don’t do wake-up KRK too often)
2. do anything other than 1, block low but be ready to throw as you can probably expect a lariat or throw coming, cr.hk should take care of lariats and being ready to tech a throw should be good to get some space between you. I have yet to see a Gief pull off a SPD motion on the ground without jumping.

Basically Dan’s Gief strategy should always be to do jump-in lk followed by a throw. If they smarten up then start doing jump-in lk followed by KRK. Never do air lk danku as it will give him enough block-stun to buffer the SPD motion.

[Sugami]

Does j.LK stuff Lariats? I just use Air Knees on him all day, sometimes they never get that it keeps beating Lariat :lol:

[ChaosBerSerKer25]

j. lk does stuff it, but for lariat wouldn’t recommend.

There MIGHT be a reason to use j. lk now, but I think it’s too risky unless you have a predictable opponent. Was thinking how jump lk stuffs TU, and you can backdash to bait another reversal and punish. With Giefs, in my experience, tend to mash out lariat or SPD if you mess up a jump in string. Tested this several times in training mode mashing/turbo lariat. When you land a j. lk around Zangief’s upper hit box area, if he reversals lariat, your ultra/super/koryuken will win. I am unsure about EX banishing flat and super/ultra though… assuming it would still work but it’s an interesting bait to me, to say the least. Reason you would do this is to get raw damage, no scaling, but again it isn’t hit confirmable. However I think if they have knowledge of this, it might allow more mind games. Last thing, this doesn’t seem to be consistent with a cross up lk, as far as I know.

[Saikyo_Joe]

Gah, this thing is so disorganized!

Good job on the info guys, I just don’t implement the stuff. Should we really work on a new one though, to maybe get things organized for Super (I have a feeling that half of the stuff will remain mostly the same anyways).

[Krackatoa]

Instead of making a new thread, I’ll just leave this here.

How to Apply Wakeup and Corner Pressure

The only thing Dan is good at. His corner game lets him dominate certain characters like Vega, Abel, Dhalsim, Fuerte, Gouken, Sakura, Gen and a ton of others if you catch them without meter.

LK Danku is key here. Straight LK Danku will stop a lot of characters in their tracks, and a lot of opponents don’t have the know-how to deal with wakeup Dankus (Blocking > Guess the Following Mixup) so you may find yourself simply stuffing their desperate attempts to get out with a special, a feeble Shoryuken or EX moves. LK Danku on wakeup is a good way to measure your opponent’s reactions, so long as you keep an eye out for wakeup Ultras or dangerous FADC combos. A 17 frame startup means they may be able to counter that on reaction if they’re on point and buffering Ultra.

Neutral Jumping LK Danku can keep close pressure on a few characters that you couldn’t otherwise. Done correctly, it forces characters like Gief to actually block or Focus if they he doesn’t have any EX to spare. Done incorrectly, you’ll whiff with a ton of landing lag, so be careful. Certain characters like Bison get crossed up if they try to block corner grounded LK Danku.

Another thing to be wary of, is doing LK Danku too close to crouching opponents. You may hop right over them, leaving yourself open to a throw or jab combo.

Dan’s wakeup games is the tiny diamond in the rough. He can keep pressure, especially in the corner, versus most of the cast. Being the gimped rushdown character that he is, you want the knockdown. It’s your best asset in a match. Getting in their face is imperitive, as it means you can avoid playing an uphill footsy battle while abusing the delicious frame advantage a meaty LK Danku gets you.

Note that most characters can counter a wakeup Danku with a reversal, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t throw one out from time to time. If you think your opponent is too wary to DP or whatever, throw one out. You may tag them trying to throw, jump, or at the very least, nab yourself that frame advantage.

Characters to Throw Meaty LK Dankus with Reckless Abandon Against on Wakeup (And other neat wakeup shenanigans)

Akuma - Spaced correctly, it either eats through his Shoryukens, or he teleports away. Hold off on a Danku to set us up the teleport bait if the Akuma doesn’t like to block.

Gouken - This guy’s free. Timed properly, LK Danku beats all Reversals. Mix wakeup pressure with throws and crossups when he’s too scared to Kongoshin. Bait a desperation EX Tatsumaki or Ultra for a massive punish. Follow up any blocked Dankus with regular mixups, a dashback for safety or even another LK Danku if you suspect Kongoshin mashing.

Cammy - No. Cannon Spike eats LK Danku. Pressure with well-timed cross-ups.

**Fei Long **- WATAAAA- No. Shien Kick eats it. Still need to study the specifics.

Ryu - No-douken. You can, but you’ll get stuffed by an HP Shoryuken and trade with LP Shoryuken.

Chun - Yes. Careful with the spacing, as her hitbox makes her very susceptible to whiffs. When she has no meter, go nuts. It’ll stuff everything (She may have some crouching normal shenanigans, but neither I nor Chuns know this, so Danku away). When she has meter, use the terror of LK Danku to bait EX SBK whilst you backdash and sweep/Ultra.

Blanka - Danku’s a bad idea. It gets beat out by Electricity or Blanka Balls. If you’re predicting Electricity, you can punish with cr.MK xx Gadouken or cr.MK xx Dankus. If he’s throwing out EX Roll, you’ll have to block.

Dhalsim - If you manage to get him on his knockdown, Danku to keep pressure on him. If you get him in the corner, work your magic, but watch out for Super. Spaced properly, you’ll hop right past Ultra and pop him in the face.

**Honda **- If he has no EX. You can stuff Headbutts and Sumo Splash with careful spacing, the problem being Honda with EX Bar is near unpressurable. Bait wakeup EX moves to drain his EX Stocks then try and score a knockdown.

Zangief - Doing a nj.Air LK Danku too high, and you’re vulnerable to Crouch > SPD. Do one too low, and you get a Lariat. There’s a sweetspot where he can only punish with EX Greenhand. Do a meaty grounded Danku is asking for trouble. On the other hand, doing an earlier LK Danku from further away will stuff an EX Greenhand. Also, don’t be afraid to meaty EX Gadouken from max range on Gief’s wakeup. EX Greenhand should clash with the Gadouken twice (Needs moar testing).

Guile - Flash Kick beats out LK Danku. With proper spacing, aerial LK Danku beats out Flash Kick, Super AND Ultra. Tee hee. Lots of Guile players don’t know this. I recommend taunting afterwards for maximum effect. Aerial Danku on wakeup is very dangerous though, so avoid overuse, as Guile can simply crouch to avoid them. Pressuring with cross-ups are a good idea aswell. Keep him guessing and don’t let him get away.

Ken - LK Danku eats FP.Shoryuken free, but not MP or LP.Shoryuken. Good to know if you’re playing “Flowchart Ken #5934” A deep LK Danku will hop right over all DPs, opening him up for an easy EX Danku or s.MK. Careful, though. Hop-over LK Danku’s get beat by cr.LP. Keep pressure and apply the mixups.

Seth - He can teleport and Shoryuken. Good luck trying to keep pressure on him. You can cross him up relatively safely, I think.

M. Bison - If he doesn’t have EX, LK Danku. If he does have EX, get ready for the inevitable EX Psycho Crusher. If you get him in the corner, keep pressuring with deep LK Dankus. Most Bison players will have a tough time finding a way out if they don’t have EX meter to spend. Timed properly, Danku will hop over his Ultra in the corner with no risk of Danku whiffing if he doesn’t.

Sagat - Tiger Uppercut makes this guy a bit too scary to pressure, though Danku will trade and keep you safe from Ultra with all the pushback. Your best bet is to cross him up.

Vega - HAHAHAHAHA. Always Danku once you got him down. He can’t backflip at either speed, because you can punish with throw or cr.MK xx Anything. In the corner, just spam Danku followed by mixups. If he tries to PPP backflip, Ultra him. Spaced properly, Vega can’t hit you with anything in retaliation.

Balrog - Not a guy you want to pressure with Danku due to Headbutt. Your best bet is actually a meaty cr.MK xx EX Danku. It beats Headbutt and all of his other EX moves outside of EX Dash Punch, and is fairly safe (It’s a 1-frame link on Balrog’s part to punish it). If he doesn’t have EX, you can use the tried-and-true cr.MK xx Gadouken, or you can always opt for cr.MK xx HK Danku, which will combo if he tries any reversals and leave you safe on block if he doesn’t reversal the cr.MK with Headbutt.

Abel - LK Danku all the way. He can’t deal. If you can predict his rolls, you can nab him with a throw. Danku strings work great in this matchup. Keep pressure and don’t be afraid to GTFO if Abel’s gaining momentum. Whoever gets the knockdown first wins.

C.Viper - Thunder Knuckle stuffs Dankus.

**Rufus **- If he’s got EX, you can bait EX Messiah and punish with a jumpback HK. Problem is the jump can be punished with EX Snake Strike. If he’s got no meter, Danku spam his wakeup and don’t let him build meter by rushing him down. It sounds like a bad idea, but it beats playing footsies, and properly spaced LK Dankus give you the frame advantage.

El Fuerte - Danku. Danku some more. You can counter his dashing game with Danku. You can avoid any specials with Danku. You can pressure his wakeup with Danku. You can bait Ultra with MK and HK Danku. You can’t be hit with Super during LK Danku. He can escape with EX Guacamole, but it’ll miss all(?) attempted LK Danku pressure. Danku. Mixup with throws, DPs, Focus Attacks.

Sakura - If she has no meter, you can safely pressure with LK Danku if it’s spaced properly. If she does have meter, you run the risk of getting hit with EX Shouoken. Because of her tiny hitbox, hop-over Dankus are a problem if you’re not spacing properly.

Rose - You’re pretty safe on this one. Properly spaced, she can’t hit you with anything. Danku spam and mixup where appropriate.

Dan - Why are you using Danku when you could be taunting? Besides, Dan has a great Koryuken. It’s dangerous pressuring him from the front.

Gen - Properly spaced, he can’t do anything but block or dash back. Mixup with HK Danku if he starts dashing backwards.

It’s fairly basic stuff, with a bit of matchup specific strategies. Nothing too special. In the end, I really didn’t think it was thread worthy.

Anyone feel free to add any matchup info in regards to wakeup pressure.

I figure we can hold off on any info compilation until Super comes out.

[Kikuichimonji]

Couldn’t Gen EX Oga to get away? Also, I thought that versus Ryu a ‘hop over Danku’ stuffed a lp shoryu and the hp shoryu whiffed, allowing you to punish with ultra.

[Sugami]

He does say without meter

Rose and Abel can catch LK Dankuu on wakeup with Soul Throw and Falling Sky respectively, not ideal wakeup moves to use but if they catch on you’ll have to backoff and mix things up a bit more.