in reference to the Vice question i beleive she rears back before lunging forward on the fierce, therefore it may actually reduce the range.
Yeah, it is a Kara Cancel I guess. I just said Kara Throw since all Gief really has are throws. Typo
The only reason I distinguish Kara Throwing and Kara Canceling is only to distinguish 3S and CvS2. Really, they are one in the same because throwing in 3S is actually a command as opposed to CvS2. CvS2 changes a f+fp/fk automatically into a throw at a certain range, which doesn’t make them command because you can’t do them anywhere. 3S you can hit mp+mk anywhere, the throw will come out, it’ll just whiff - like command throws in CvS2.
The thing about CvS2 though is, you use the canceling of the normal for more than just a command throw. You use it for command whatever to either (a) get a tad more reach, (b) get a tad more meter, or © both.
The thing about it is, in order to be a legitimate cancel, you have to start the animation of a normal and then cancel it before the hitbox ever appears. For command throws, this is good because often the normal animation triggers the block animation on your opponent, so if they hold back, they’re immobile while you’re canceling into a throw. Free damage. So with your Iori example, you’d have to cancel the Dodge Attack before it actually ever came out.
Wait. You have to cancel it before it came out? This means that “buffering” it would have the same effect, correct?
I mean doing the motion for the Maiden Masher plus the punch button, which in this case is his dodge attack, as usual seems to always work for me. However, it seems like his dodge attacks always comes out and then cancels into the Maiden Masher.
Odd.
It’s kinda like buffering, but not.
For instance, using Iori as an example. His f+strong makes him do the step forward backfist normal. Normally, that’s all he does. It is an unbufferable normal.
When you Kara Cancel, you do f+strong and before the move ever finishes animation you cancel it. Like Roll Canceling. The move never fully comes out, so the hitbox never registers, and so you never have a chance to hit your opponent with the normal. Instead, you Kara Cancel the f+strong into the Rekka and you take advantage of the few frames that Iori moves forward with the backfist to make the Rekka cover more distance on the inital hit. While the hitbox never registers (so you can’t connect the backfist to do any damage), the animation still triggers the block animation on the opponent, and your super meter still registers it as a whiffed normal. Rock’s c.mk also does this - if you do his B&B and you buffer the Hard Edge too early, the c.mk gets canceled before it can actually HIT your opponent and the Hard Edge comes out. But the c.mk did, in fact, start. If you sit in P Groove and buffer c.mk into a Crack Counter real fast, you’ll never see Rock’s leg stick out to hit anyone, but you’ll see you gain meter for a whiffed Crack Counter AND a whiffed c.mk.
Er… I will sound and obviously am quite stupid for asking this question but: What the hell is a Roll Cancel?
I have no idea since I have a) only started playing this game again very recently, b) have no arcade near me that actually has the machine of CvS2 to my knowledge, and thus c) have no competition. Not that any of those things still have to with me not knowing what a roll cancel is, but I basically haven’t been keeping tabs on CvS2 because of those reasons.
C, A, and N Grooves all roll. There’s a glitch in the game where, if you do a command for a special (fireball, command throw, whatever) within the first three frames of the Roll animation, you pick up the invincibility from the roll but go into the special animation. So you do a completely invincible Hadouken. Or you can Blanka Ball through fireballs. Whatever.
Since the games runs at sixty fps you can imagine that canceling something at three frames is almost impossible to do manually. So it’s usually done like d, df, lp+lk, f+fp. You’re rolling your hand across the buttons, is the best way I can explain it.
But yeah. That’s Roll Canceling.
hey mummy, just wondering how much distance one should be expecting to gain with a kara cancel. Also, is the frame window for kara cancelling pretty much the same as the frame window for roll cancelling? (by frame window i mean the time you have between a F.fp->cancel, or a roll->cancel) For example, if i am doing the S.Fp->Hcb Fp cancel with todo, should i see the S.Fp animation, or should i cancel extremely early in the animation. I am doing the kara cancel with todo, but it doesnt seem to be doing anything. Sorry for all the questions, but i just want to make sure im doing it right. Thanks alot in advance.
Already a great article on all this
Click on the Articles link and look up this great article on roll cancelling and misc.
CvS2 Kara Roll Glitch
It answers a LOT of the questions posted on this thread
and clears up some of the misconceptiions and ambiguity about what “Kara” really is.
It discusses the difference between “Kara” cancelling vs. buffering (and probably why fighting games made such a difference).
It explains S-groove Dodge properties for Kara cancelling (everyone can do this not just Gief).
It breaks down Kara Throws.
It totally breaks down roll cancelling (RC’s).
It explains how and why they are used in games such as Third Strike and CvS2.
And there’s even an FAQ part.
It’s quite extensive.
Huh, I had only heard of Kara Throwing. I’m not sure if I entirely see the use of other Kara Cancels. Does the collision box of the character just need to extend forward (meaning it widens horizontally) or does the character’s axis need to move forward? I’m assuming there’s some kind of axis that is used for aligning the animation of the sprites and centering the collision boxes. If you do a move that shifts this axis, then quickly cancel it into a special, then I can see how many moves can increase (or decrease) your horizontal range.
So the real quesiton is: which moves are the best for increasing your range? Since you cancel them in just a few frames (3 was it?) it’s hard to tell where the character’s position changes before the move is initiated.
I haven’t looked at the above mentioned article, but all I know it it should be pretty fast. Like, you should see the normal begin to come out, but then it never does. Kinda like how with some Roll Canceled moves, you can see someone start to roll but then it goes into the special (best example I can think of is RCing King’s Mirage Kick).
To be perfectly honest, I don’t think CvS2 presents a great practical abuse for canceling normals. I mean, you might gain a couple frames of movement but it really doesn’t do very much. Not worth mastering it, IMO.
It’s pretty good for gaining meter. Especially in C groove, when you gain 4 points for whiffed fierce moves.
I almost always whiff cancel fierces with rugal before I throw fireballs or do his air dark smasher.
(you can kara cancel moves in the air, too)
They used to do this all the time in Alpha 2, where meter was god.
Kara throw my feirce biatch!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
On a side note, there’s no point kara-canceling Todo’s command grab because you can just roll cancel it instead and still get the sick range increase.
How about Iori? forward+strong (moves him forward) cancelled into hcb-forward+P (Scum Gale), then combo into Fierce, qcb+Fierce x 3 (deadly flower)… and if you wish to, qcf+P to throw a gaurd damage rekka upon wake up.
I think that’s quite good, but I think it’d be hard to kara-cancel into scum gale. It’s worth it though… A-Groove Iori can just CC after Scum Gale. :evil:
Ok, I just tried it, but I’m not fast enough to cancel into SG off of a f+strong. If this is possible on a knockdown hit, then cr. RH might be a better option. 
edit
Ok, I give up for now, either this can’t be done on a knockdown hit or I’m too slow.
yes i believe some command normals cannot be canceled