na i dont think its comparable. How often do you see infiltration or poongko do execution errors? rarely. How often do you see latif or krone do execution errors? pretty much 80% of all matches. I dont say Akuma or Seth is easy to play or something, but strictly speaking of execution its easy as fuck compared to viper.
That said I think she needs -1 Frame startup on cr.LK and cl.LK (down to 4 from 5) and slightly faster recovery on cr.LK (so that she is at least -2 and not -3 on block - so a reversal srk will not hit you on a blocked cr.LK no matter what). Also chaining two cl.LK or cr.LK into cl.LK should result in a true blockstring and not be shoryu mashable. Maybe even reduce Fierce TK Startup to 6 or even 5 frames, but maybe that would make her too strong. The changes to her LKs are needed though to give her somewhat viable footsies imo. You cant just feint everything and never get a combo. To balance it out I would be fine with lowering the dmg on seismos by like 10, this would make her a more balanced character and overall more viable without making her op imo.
Knowing Capcom, they are probably going to make her U2 do some insane amount of damage but no one will ever use it. Optic blast and BK feint would be rad but it won’t happen.
Yeah it was kinda funny doing her trials in Super and seeing Capcom shamelessly plug her U2 in a lot of them lol
Wouldn’t be surprised if there was a U2 buff in exchange for her other stuff getting nerfed.
I’m pretty fine with the way she is. It makes sense that they could nerf her frames for BK’s on block but I mean what’s the point if characters can duck under it and punish like diehilde said? She’s been figured out for the most part, but what I like about her the most is to be able to play her no matter what mood you’re in, and the creativity just goes nuts. That said, if there are some minor dmg or stun nerfs, whatever. As long as we get that vortex.
Come to think of it I’d like capcom to give her better defensive options lol but honestly I don’t think she needs anything.
Latif said in that excellent 100 match youtube vid that the only thing he cares about is fixing her cr. MK, because [and i agree] it just looks like it goes through the opponents leg. So maybe a slight cr. MK hitbox adjustment?
Man, I used to loathe viper, and while I still feel she’s real strong… she’s not nearly as bullshit in my eyes as Cammy. I can respect that at least good viper play requires a decent amount of thought and high execution, not complete auto-pilot BS.
I honestly think if they nerfed Cammy, Akuma and maybe Seth, leave viper and a few others untouched and buff the rest then it’ll be fine. Of course I wouldn’t cry if she got nerfed since I don’t play her, but I don’t think it’s really necessary as long as they do the aforementioned balance process.
In 2012 Wolfkrone won Final Round, the biggest USA major outside Evo, and Summer Jam.
cr.lk 4f startup, -2 on block<br>far hk causes ground bounce on counter-hit (aerial opponents) that can combo into HP TK (no juggle possible afterwards)<br>towards hk can cancel into super like fei long’s<br>far mp special cancellable<br>less recovery on empty super jump (make it same as when you press a button in the air)<br>
ChopSui
20
These are interesting changes lol. I would love to have these changes at the expense of damage or eben frame advantage on bk
Killey
21
If the rest of the cast are getting buffed appropriately than I don’t see any reason why Viper shouldn’t get a few buffs in order to keep her relevant with the rest of the cast. Most Viper players are content with her, as her play style hasn’t been changed to date but she could use a few minor improvements.
-c.Foward hitbox extended to hit as they way it appears - This is a buff that every Viper player back in the day wanted and it’s still a valid buff that can improve her footsies. I understand this would be one hell of a long range poke but you have to realize that Jab or Strong TK would whiff on a max ranged c.Forward. Hell, it already whiffs on spacing as is so a buff like this will still encourage an understanding of footsies.
-far s.RH anti-air cause a hard knockdown - The move is an extremely situational anti-air and has bad recovery so the least it can do is cause a hard knockdown when used correctly. Preferably, so we can start our oki game with a safe jump or something.
-Increased frame advantage off of TK feints from normals - I’m not sure what the frame (dis)advantage is with TK feint cancels off of normals but I would like to see these slightly buffed so that characters with 3f normals can’t just mash their way out of feint cancel pressure.
Interesting buffs but potentially broken:
-Allow Burn Kicks to be feinted - Probably really broken depending on how this is implemented but this would add an interesting layer to her mix ups and make her fun to play again because the game is starting to get stagnant.
Feinting using the kick buttons might be good & bad because double tapping BK’s would trigger the feint giving some interesting results but would also make it annoying for people who double tap BK’s for execution consistency. Feinting BK’s with punches would create interesting execution techniques for mix ups utilizing the feint. Recovery of a feinted BK is proportional to the height at which she performs the BK so a SJ BK would be trip guard punishable if she feinted at max height.
Feinting with TK’s had different recovery times based on which strength of TK was used; however, with BK’s I would like to see the strength of button used for the feint to manipulate things like whether Viper retains the momentum of the BK trajectory.
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Faster Focus Attack please. Viper’s focus has to be one of the worst in the entire game.
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Ultra 2 - Has to be blocked standing and needs a cross up hitbox to make it into a viable Ultra. Able to execute U2 at any point in during jump trajectory (might be broken?). Reduce damage of Ultra as a trade-off if any of the requested attributes are added.
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Either fix crouching medium kick’s hit box or make her sweep faster.
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Ex Thunder Knuckle is pretty useless. Rework this move and give her a low, mid and high ex thunder knuckle depending on which two buttons are pressed.
5 Neutral jump kicks (namely hard kick) aimed at a crouching opponent are easily avoided by pressing sweep or crouching medium with too many characters (was this intentional to begin with?). Hitbox needs to be reworked on hard kick so this can’t happen. At least one neutral jump attack should be threatening on the way down.
Alright guys so if you havent heard there are going to be threads on capcom unity every week for the next few weeks cover specific characters to take suggestions from the community. As you all know viper has gotten slightly weaker every game, and I think its time for a buff. If we work together on this we can maybe get something we actually want.
I posted about this earlier but I think its a bit more serious now so my serious changes are as follow
one or all(LOL) of these would be great
-Better Focus - its really the worst in the game
-Longer l.forward
-faster sweep, or make it special cancelable (LOL)
-Reduce HP.tk from 9 frames to 5-6. Seriously its too easy to jump on viper randomly.
-if not the previous then maybe speed up c.HP by a frame and extend its hitbox upward a bit so it can AA those weird angles vip has issues with
-Cr. Short needs to be reduced to 4f and -2 on block as someone mentioned earlier.
I just think that anything that can make viper better at footsies and better and AA would allow her to rely less on BKs and more on a ground game. I was thinking that she could use some change that would help her control horizontal space better, when you take away vipers BK game its too easy to jump and walk her into the corner. Id like to be able to just stay solid and rely on my normals without always being too slow.
I think she needs better block strings and a buff on the hp tk to make it faster. Oh and make sure that Neutral Jump hk always faces the correct direction ( It’s frustrating getting punished for game mechanics like this). I really don’t care about her focus to much because I don’t use it and even if they made it faster the range would still be bad. I say instead of focus buffs give her a better backdash.
It’s already at 7.
Viper needs the following changes:
BK feint.
BK hitting OH.
Post-hit TK feints.
Projectile-invincible Ex TK.
Chainable normals.
Eye lasers.
OTG U1.
Invincible, horizontal-moving U2.
Specials that can be canceled into EX moves and Ultra.
Hmm.
IDK why I thought it was 9 LOL but 7 is still slow >_>
I agree with everything you said lmao
Floor
27
VIper should get a buff to her c.MK hitbox. I mean…look at this…
What the hell is that? It should be called c.MKankle. Latif has even said that he would want this change.
Aside from that, there aren’t any changes that are necessary. Any other changes to her would change her as a character. She has already had her frame advantage taken away when SSF4 was released. Her damage was reduced when AE2012 was released. In AE, all she got was a better hitbox on her U2 (lol). To be honest, I have not heard that many complaints about Viper, save for Dieminion (lolguileplayers). From what I have seen, it looks like Cammy and Akuma are going to get hit again. Seth will get nerfed, because he always does. Unblockables will most likely be taken out somehow (inb4 they fuck up), and the bottom 15 will get some buffs.
HP TK is fine as is. Y’all want it to be faster? Y’all want HP TK feints to be that much harder?
If I were to get “greedy”, I would ask for reducing the startup of her c.HK by 1 frame to make the cs.HP xx HP TK feint > c.HK and meterless FADC > c.HK combos a bit easier. And to get really greedy: remove the hurtbox on Viper’s leg for her fs.HK.
inb4 Viper nerfed like Yang
lol community input
lol
The best anyone can ask for is just fixing cr.MK, I seriously doubt Viper is going to get any buffs. If she does it’s going to be a minor useless consolation prize so we can say “Well at least she got one buff to deal with her 4 nerfs”. I’m not saying you shouldn’t be posting buff suggestions, I’m just saying don’t be surprised when none of it makes the cut for AE2013.
Velius
29
Yeah capcom sucks and the worst part is they’ll act like they listen to the community
this lol.
I agree that she honestly dosent need much but I WANT something. she has literally gotten ever so slightly weaker in every game. We deserve our low forward extension lol. Does anyone think that making hp.tk box wider would help her? I want them to just either give her atleast give her 1 normal she can use in footsies OR a normal that makes up for angles she cant really AA. I dont think it would be a bid deal to speed up FPTK because as it is I often do FFF too fast anyways. This would help AA and wouldnt make FFF that much harder IMO
Velius
31
thatd be cool too so characters like yang cant cr.short you to death and not worry about fp tk
make EXTK able to juggle an airborne opponent even after both hits.
end of list.
