Creating Havoc: The Taka-Arashi Thread

[Reno]

Just uploaded quite a few matches with a real good Taka player, gl0ry85.

The rest are at my youtube page, www.youtube.com/johochef

Just a tip, with Jean, 4KP, 33PK is guaranteed combo on hit. It’s one of the best things to use against Taka because it does near 70 points of damage. Just be careful because the second hit of 4KP is high and can be ducked and punished when blocked.

Also, gl0ry is using 2P+KP A LOT, but the second hit is blockable even if the first hit connects. Make sure to block low and punish with 4KP 33PK

Just trying to stay basic mostly. A lot of standing P into frame traps/step catch. Trying to play safe in close with P_2P_6P_4P. 4P+K+G is a sabaki that eats jabs and most 6P type elbows up to I think 2 hits. It activates in 1-2 frames so you can throw it out vs people that try to jab check your safe moves. HCF+P also sabakis 1 hit of mid/high punch/elbow up to I think 15 dmg, and is active on frame 1.

4PKG eats all high and mid level elbows and punches, but not double handed attacks (akiras double palm for example)

HCF+P on counterhit launches and you can connect with P, then 6P+KPP for a combo.

Still not sure how to deal with wakeup kicks other than to block or backdash 33P+K. I’ve had 1P+K and 3K both hit them out of wakeup kicks but I haven’t messed around with it enough.

Please use this match of me against this Jacky for a good wake up trick. It happens in the last round.

[media=youtube]nXfDhN36YPs[/media]

On approach I’ve been trying K_4KP_6K stuff_66P. But nothing seems to outshine the others. 6K has nice range and 6KP is NC with the option to go into stance or delay the 3rd hit. 2nd hit is high though. 4KP is NC with a sideturn on hit, but again it’s high on the 2nd hit. Semi- hit confirmable as long as you don’t delay too long. 3K is alright, gets you a knockdown. K is ok, gives you +1 on hit, and stuns backdashers. 66P is pretty good at i14 and some reach, with the optional delay PP after. 2K has pretty great range, but you’re at disadvantage on block. I need to mess with HCF+P and 43P more. K+GP too. All are pretty sick.

K is good at midrange, but I think everything else is not worth it. Even K can get evaded pretty easily and lets you at a disadvantage. For an approach, just dash up and start using 6P and standing P to enforce your mixup game, or use 2_6P slap.

Been trying to use stance. Some great tools but you have to work to get people to get hit by them. Off of 6KP_6P+K_PP block or hit they can pretty much duck jab you out of every stance option except 2_8P+K+G, which leaves you at like -1/2 if they 2P. Stance I’ve found to be pretty much only useful off of 4P and 4PP since it leaves you at a slight advantage, and stance P+K beats duck jabs, and stance K beats duck jabs off of 4PP. So maybe only useful against noobs and to use raw stance to duck highs. As far as the stance options, P is a 360 swipe that gives a combo on hit. P+K is the fastest option and a mid, K is a TC low that gives +f and combo on CH (1PP into whatev). 4P+K+G does a backstep that goes into a punch/elbow sabaki, 2_8P+K+G goes into a huge SS. P+K+G is a high clap that gives a free P+K on block (Ganryu f+2~1+2).

What you have to do to set up the stance is make them scared to throw out anything. 6KPP can be delayed slightly, same with 6P+KPP and 4PPP so you should take advantage of this ability to delay strings to make them freeze.

That’s all I got for now. Still trying to find how to beat wakeup kicks. Also trying to figure out the wall combo system. I know that in most cases if I hit a wall mid combo I can only land 6KK. If I land a big wall splat like 46P, I can get something like 43P~P+K+G~P+K, 6P+KP for pretty big damage.

Best wall combo for Taka is (Splat) SLIGHT Delay, 33P+K, 43P~PKG~P+K, 3P+K/33P+K

[FlyMike]

@ Brahma: Cool man. Look out for a FR from me later so we can get a set. I play Taka/Jeff. I used to try to use him like a variation of Ganny, but he’s his own beast even with the similar move properties. Just a straightforward tank.

@ Reno: Lol that’s a nice rape tool for wakeups. Myself, if I anticipated getup lows, I was using 9P, then on hit go into 1+P+G crouch grab. But a few times my jump attack would get clipped by the sweep if mis-timed. Looks like neutral hopping is a safer bet. Sometimes I’ll joke around and random hop and use it as a funky mixup tool when approaching to throw people off and force them to either freeze or do something dumb. But for anticipating wakeup it’s too legit. Will be replacing 9P antics with this asap. Or will be using both if there’s a chance that they could possibly react to hop with quick jab after whiffing sweep. Can they? Or is the recovery for them too much?

[Brahma]

Thanks Reno, saw you on stream the other night, didn’t know you played Taka (or VF for that matter).

I was trying to use 9K to jump wakeup kicks, but yeah, kept getting clipped out of the jump. Looks like neutral jump is more reliable? I’ll have to play with it. Anything I can use vs. the mid rising kicks?

As far as mixups I’ll try to start getting in with P_6P more. I think I try to play too far out which is why I’m trying to use a lot of ranged tools.

[FlyMike]

9K seemed to have a smaller hitbox than 9P or something, but I rarely use it as much, instead going for 9P into crouch grabs.

VS mid wakeup, in close all you can do is prob block. Maybe throw attempt as punish. Because they’re not at enough neg frames to guarantee anything except a mixup. But I think the frames change depending on range or whether they roll before rising and attacking. If I punish enough close wakeup mids with grabs, people start doing shit the next go around so I throw out headbutt or even 6P to set up something else. If I get a ranged knockdown and anticipate a wakeup mid, I’ve got my spacing down to where I just 33P launch them. If you’re in deep and you anticipate a wakeup mid and have a sec to backdash outta the way, you can 33P+K launch them since it’s faster. People get hit by enough of these and they either start laying there, or get straight up frozen for a sec, giving you time for a grab attempt, or a 2K+G into combo.

Knowing wakeup and oki doesn’t work like Tekken, but I could’ve sworn that I’ve 3P+K people on the ground rolling or doing shit. And I don’t mean tacking it onto combos as a non-guaranteed ender for people who don’t tech, I mean after this fact. But I could be mistaken.

[Brahma]

Ok, I managed to land 3PK and 1P+K several times on getup kicks today. The timing is kind of weird, you almost have to hit it as a meaty. Roll and then kick is -15/16 so you should be able to get free headbutt. But yeah, if it’s a far knockdown, 33P whiff punish is the way to go.

FlyMike, does 9P guarantee a crouch throw attempt? If so that might be more useful than doing 9K into combo.

[FlyMike]

Pretty sure it does. I’ve only ever messed around with it in matches, and on hit I’ve always gotten the crouch grab unless I did it too late. I don’t think it’s a CH deal but if so, I must’ve been placing it well or something lol.

[Reno]

On a wakeup kick it’s better to do 6K instead of 3P+K or 1P+K. If you land it on a wakeup kick it clashes and acts as a counterhit, so it’ll launch them and you can do 1PP, 6P+KPP for 60-ish damage (IIRC)

[FlyMike]

On a wakeup kick it’s better to do 6K instead of 3P+K or 1P+K. If you land it on a wakeup kick it clashes and acts as a counterhit, so it’ll launch them and you can do 1PP, 6P+KPP for 60-ish damage (IIRC)

Actually bro, the shits like 76 dmg lolol. That’s wow and wish I would’ve known that it clashed for CH during the wakeup instead of always settling to range punish it. BUT…for the exact same timing and situation, you can get 33P+K. With CH 6+K, you gotta input it right as you see opponent start to stand on both feet for it to connect just right, inbetween you whiffing through their invulnerability period and them smacking the shit out of you. CH 6+K launcher is 18 frames, 36 dmg, the combo on mids is 76.

On the flip though, you can just do 33P+K for around the same timing (it’s 17 frames) or this may just make it slightly easier and safer to land, idk. But the launcher itself on CH is 37 dmg, the full combo on mids is 91 dmg with 6P+KPP ender, and a fucking 99 dmg with 4PPP ender.

Same situation, 33P launcher is 45 dmg on CH, combo on mids with 6P+KPP ender is 99 dmg, with 4PPP ender it’s 107 dmg. But imo at 22 frames it’s way harder to time and land up close, but it’s still what I use for ranged punish on wakeup kicks.

[FlyMike]

And don’t know whether it’s been posted already, but whereas Jeff gets full combo for his 44P+G grab with back to wall if they don’t shake out of stagger, all I was able to get from Taka’s 4P+G grab with back to wall was 1PP, 6KK for 69 dmg.

My weaksauce setups: If they tech away from wall, I quickly go for the 44P+G grab again to put them back in similar situation but finish with simply 6P+KPP due to angles. But if they would’ve teched back towards wall, I may immediately go for a quick splat like 3K then into wall combo.

[Reno]

This is very true, but only 6K is used at high levels because it’s much safer in many ways comparatively.

If your timing is too late or too early you’re going to eat a wakeup kick either way, but they just block on wakeup then you’re at -17 on block with 33P+K and only -8 with 6K. Honestly I’ve never seen anyone do 33P+K on wakeup in all the years I’ve been playing the game. It just seems way too risky for 20 points more damage.

[FlyMike]

I feel you, definitely agree.

[Za_Fuuru]

I don’t get how to force my opponent to block low, Taka’s low moves look really bad and slow and unsafe on block. Which low should I use? How to make my opponent blocking low? Is Taka’s mixup just mid/throw? I see that throws always lose against hits, if my opponent keeps pushing buttons I can’t throw him at all. Please any tips!

[Brahma]

1P+K is a pretty solid low. It’s fast enough and it’s a tech crouch and tracks to his stomach as well, gives you free hits if they don’t tech and tech catches if they do. 2K is also really good at mid ranges as it has good reach and it’s fast. It leaves at -2 on hit though.

I wouldn’t bank on most of your damage coming from people ducking into mids though. You’re also going to have to use punishment, frame traps, step/backdash spacing to get your hits in.

[Reno]

Do mixups with P, 6P, throw, 2P+K and 4P+KP.

Honestly, throws should be enough of a threat for any person to duck considering you take off 40% off everyone and up to 50% on lightweights off a single throw.

[Za_Fuuru]

Yeah that’s what I’m doing, the problem is that against mashers it’s hard to use throws.

Besides I still don’t get how to do max damage against lightweights after HCB throw.

[Brahma]

Against anyone who doesn’t block, throws are pretty useless, as attacks beat out throws in this game. Against people who won’t stop pressing buttons, frame traps like P, 4P+K work wonders.

Reno, why 2P+K? Even though it’s 5 frames faster, 1P+K, gives a much better reward in a knockdown instead of 2P+K’s -5 on hit. They both seem to feel the same for tech crouch. I find 2K pretty useful too as it has a lot more range than either of the above. Only -3 on max range hit too. Is it a speed thing or safety on block?

Is there a way to cc so I can do 2P,6P instead of 2P,FC6P?

Found a better option for HCB throw at the wall since the staple P+K, 1PP, 6P+KPP whiffs. For lighter weights, HCB P+G, P+K, P, 33P+K, 6P+KPP for 82 dmg. On larger characters (Jean size) you can do P+K, P, 6P+KPP for 72. Not sure if that one works for Wolf Jeff and Taka tho.

I was messing around in training mode and found that after certain throws, mid rising attacks lose some or all of their tracking properties. Meaning you can step and get a free 33P+K launch. The low rising kick will always track though. Trying to find an option select of something like step~66G~9K to deal with both getup kicks in this situation. Anyways, here’s what I found:

P+G: Mid rising attacks have no tracking. Step either way.
4P+G_6P+G_2P+G_3P+G_catch throw 4P+G: Mid rising attacks can be stepped to your right (8 if opponent lands on 1p side, 2 if they land on 2p side).
FC64P+G: Same as above, however if you stand in place all rising attacks will whiff.

EDIT: Found some inconsistencies. Against another Taka for example, you will always step up to avoid his rising mid, instead of down on the 2p side. Don’t know if this applies to any other characters, maybe ones with unorthodox rising mids?

[Reno]

Reno, why 2P+K? Even though it’s 5 frames faster, 1P+K, gives a much better reward in a knockdown instead of 2P+K’s -5 on hit. They both seem to feel the same for tech crouch. I find 2K pretty useful too as it has a lot more range than either of the above. Only -3 on max range hit too. Is it a speed thing or safety on block?

It’s -5 on hit but you can work that to your advantage. I use 2P+K, backdash into anything A LOT when I’m playing either in the arcades or online. People tend to 2P after 2P+K hits so you can do shit like 2P+K (hit), backdash, 33P+K, standing K, or low throw. What you have to worry about is people anticipating the backdash and hitting you a midkick for that stagger bonus or something else that can catch your backdash. Alternatively you can evade if they try 2P or something to hit a backdasher.
[/quote]

Is there a way to cc so I can do 2P,6P instead of 2P,FC6P?

Not that I know of, no.

[Brahma]

Ok, I’ll have to mess with that some more. Is -5 a pretty good situation to BD/step in general? Also, about the low throw, can I low throw opponents out of a whiffed 2P?

[Za_Fuuru]

About low throw, does it work against 11G option select? I mean when your opponent does a crouching backdash and then blocks to dodge throws and block mids.

I don’t get when I should use low throws, I see that 1P+G is an awesome throw, big damage.

[Brahma]

I’ve been using them as a punish for sweeps, though there may be better options. How fast are crouch grabs anyhow?