Controversial Akuma

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
21

ponta-kun: thanks for that last post.

tsukaihatasu: it’s like ponta-kun said u are somewhat theory fighting. ur talking about extreme examples and shit man. yes everything is easily parried if u know it’s coming, but mind games means u dont’ i mean come on, does every combo have to be a monster, and u act like akuma’s moves are worthless or something, if ur not going to contribute to making people better with him, what is the purpose of posting in the akuma thread? i’m not trying to put u down but jeez lay off man.

22

Ponta-Kun:

Rather than go over every point like last time, I’ll summarize my rebuttal, restate my position, give some credentials and call it a day.

FACT: Akuma!=Ryu in terms of strength or stamina. You yourself admitted that the jump in combos you mentioned are hard to land. Add to that the fact that Ryu can take 100% in a combo(+1 hit after stun) on Akuma, and Akuma at best can take less than half of Ryu’s power in a single combo, and there’s really nothing left to discuss.

FACT: Demon Flip is easily escaped. DP!=Theory fighter(subtle insult), as the people I play with use this all the time. Play against Ricky Ortiz’s Ken and I guarantee you’ll catch an uppercut. BTW, DF punch dont trade with EX DP, and Chun’s jumping splits kick totally destroys DFlip.

FACT: I am good at RD. I average 15 a day. Ive landed as many as 27 in a single day. This is no joke and you are hereby invited to Bearcade to watch me work. That being said it is dead-easy to escape RD. No combo=Easy escape. What’s the argument?

POSITION:
My position, stated simply, is that Akuma is better at zone control than rushdown. Rushdown, when it works, is very flashy, but zone control will earn you CONSISTENT wins. I never said Akuma was the best character for zoning, and if you are a true diehard Akuma player, it doesn’t matter who the best at zoning is, because it wouldn’t even occur to you to pick any other character. This is the Akuma thread.

CREDITS:
I was known as one of the 3 Kings of the OakTree for many years before moving to BC. That rep was earned with Akuma and the RD.
At the Bearcade, I clock more wins than any other player. With Akuma. Most people there are afraid to play me. I just had back to back to back 20+ game winning streaks at BC yesterday, and won 5doru to top it off.
Still, the comp there is pretty good. There’s Hydro who will parry everything you mentioned, PracticeMaster who low parries everything, and Joe who runs very efficiently with every character he plays with. I’ve played against most of the SVGL players and beat them easily, and I’ve played against some of the current greats: Ricky Ortiz(alot: Chun/Ken/Yun/Ibuki/Akuma), Frankie3s(a few times at the NW regionals: Ryu/Akuma/Ken), Pyro Lee(same: Yun), John Choi(Ryu/Ken), Eric Choi(Ken/Urien), Hydro(Necro/Dudley/Alex), etc.

POINT:
These people destroy rushdown Akuma. For free. Play them and see for yourself. If you really think crazy rushdown with Akuma is gonna give you wins playing against good people I guess all I can say is “Good luck with that”.

CONCLUSION:
So, it would appear that the people posting all the rubbish about Akuma’s super rushdown tactics are just lucky enough to not have run into anyone good enough to beat them. And my style of Akuma is the right one to use.

Only my personal opinion, nothing more.

–tsukaihatasu

PS. I am not explaining Ryu’s 100% against Akuma. Spend some time in training mode and figure it out.

Also anyone who wants me to put my money where my mouth is can PM me and meet me at BearCade anytime. I always love a challenge.

23

dude who cares how many raging demons a day u average? no one in this thread my friend. We do not care, i’m not trying to flame, but u keep talking about all these combos that are not easily applied in a real match and u say ur tactics are secrets come on, all some one has to is wathc matches and figure it out. no one is saying rush down and that’s it, if u would of read my post it clearly implies to do it smartly. u act like all people do is hurricane kick and combo hp shoryu into messatsu, no one does that accept when it’s applicable. I don’t get what ur posting about at all on many things man. u talk about how everything is easily countered and how it sucks and how his moves have heavy recovery, 9 of his pokes have frame advantage if blocked, doing this in the rush down leaves him safe and frustrates people into doing something dumb. omg it’s all clear, what are u trying to prove man!!!

OH AND A SMART RUSH DOWN IS CONTROLLING ZONE, SPACE, all while frustrating ur opponent, akuma is a great punisher, he does damage without super meter easily, so ur always putting down his supers, his supers are only a part of his game. come one man post more than just a few good things each post if ur so godly akuma, omfg i land rd all day blah, blah, blah.

I’m not flaming just asking why man? I’m sure ur good but come on u are theory fighting man.

24

Ponta-Kun implied I’m not good at RD(an insult), just because I wouldn’t agree that RD was hard to escape. Which is BS. Thus the RD count.

I play with Akuma as my main character. I just disagree that rushdown is his greatest strength. That makes me unpopular with non-Akuma players everywhere I go, but I figured there would at least be one liked-minded person amongst the serious Akuma players. I guess not.

I assure you everything I have said has been battle tested. There are no theoretical aspects to my argument, good players beat rushdown Akuma in the way I describe. In real life. In the arcades, and at tournaments. For REAL.

And, if you’re not flaming me, why are my temples burning? Saying my examples are ‘theory fighting’ is intended to insult me. That is flame by definition.

If you want to disregard the people I list as people who do the things I said, and you are just going to blindly call me a liar, I guess its not possible to discuss this further.

Rushdown all you like.

–tsukaihatasu

25

Gouki vs Ryu is a 5/5 match.

You can combo into it, but it doesn’t matter, because it isn’t easy to escape if it’s done right (in the middle of someone else’s move, anti-air, etc).

You’ve given a lot of theoryfigther and no proof. All the Japanese vids I’ve seen of Gouki are rushdown. Have they somehow missed this?

http://www.math.missouri.edu/~stephen/preprints/cheap3/cheap3.html

PS. This isn’t news, because almost everyone in the game has one or more 100% combos against Gouki.

26

Did I miss something, what’s the point of linking the Navier-Stokes equations? Are you by chance a CS student with a specialty in Graphics? Or a physics major studying CFD?

What does that have to do with Akuma?

And the examples I gave are theoretical? You actually think Ricky doesn’t uppercut Demon Flip? I can assure you that he does. You think Hydro doesn’t parry dive kick? I assure you he does. You think Frankie doesn’t parry hurricane? I can vouch for his ability to parry it, based on first hand experiences. I guess I’m a liar because you weren’t there. You proved me wrong.

And BTW, which one of the Japanese rushdown Akumas is dominating the circuit? Asaba? Match? They all seem to be losing tournaments to me. Does that mean they’re not good? Nope. It just means something is wrong.

–tsukaihatasu

27

Well I guess that’s it. To all the other Akuma players out there, Rushdown and Good luck.

Peace.

28

i’m sorry if i flamed a little bit but all i’m saying is that rushing down is what keeps akuma safe when it’s done right, but yes u can’t do it right everytime, but the people u play can’t defend it right everytime either. i mean can u break down one of ur matches cause i do rush down too much, but i’m trying to imporve. that’s why i got upset, cause u were talking about ur secrets and all that, if u have secret tactics u don’t wanna share why are u in here. oh and everyone theory fights when ur not actually fighing lol…
Just post up and share tactics bro, that’s all i want from srk, not flaming sorry if i flamed some, casue i don’t want to be a troll.

29

SDouble: No prob. I just wanted to get the opinions of others and I think what I heard was interesting. It’s just sad that insults had to be included.

As far as sharing, I did kind of explain my thinking a little in one of the posts. I don’t want to go into specifics, for my protection. I’ve been playing at the arcade since I was 8(20+yrs) and it has cost me a lot of blood, tears, sweat, and money to gain my knowledge. This is not a shot at you, its just that people who I play against all the time are on this forum, and I don’t want to tell them how to beat me. I don’t really do any moves or combos that haven’t been seen(well maybe a couple), it’s really my style and the way I mix things up that allows me to win.

That said, here’s some advice:

Necro(SAI&III) v Akuma is a bad matchup; don’t rush, you’ll get stunned and killed.

Chun(SAI&II) v Akuma is the worst matchup on the game for Akuma. Don’t rush because all you really have is the dive kick and most people(GOOD) parry that all the time. Zoning and parrying is critical here.

Ken’s crossup can be beaten with a parry > j.DP. Block at the last second and you’ll get a parry. Try it, it really works. It works against EX Tatsu as well, and it really discourages use of crossups.

If Yun goes to SAIII, rushdown. If not, hang back.

Urien’s shoulder rush should be parried every time. Same for Q and Alex’s rushes. This is key to beating them.

Don’t get mesmerized by Remy’s projectiles. Parry them to taunt your opponent, but don’t take your focus off of killing him.

Always kara throw, never use std throw.

Some Ragings are for show, some are useful. I’ll leave it there.

Above all, patience is a virtue when using Akuma.

Now I know people are going to flame me for the above statements, but if you keep this advice in mind when playing these difficult matchups, I guarantee you’ll get better even if you don’t follow it.

–tsukaihatasu

30

no thinks man i would like to hear from u(and anyone else!!) about the oro matchup, and if u’ll share what are akuma’s best bait tactics, is it just frustrating the opponent?

if u respond to the matchup questions could u post them in the matchups thread i made i’d like to see everything in the sections if yall on here don’t mind. let’s get all the knowledge we can out there…

31

i must say that i disagree because akuma takes damage horribly but then again everyone has a different way of playing with diffrent characters and u just chose your way so if it works 4 you use it

32

I’ll give you this much, RDs are easy to escape if for some reason you’r in block stun, e.g. close s.mk, hesitate slightly, kara demon (f.mp -> RD) is totally escapeable even after the freeze frame. However the dashing RD is a whole different story, you actually have to anticipate those, so now your cornered with a decision, either jump, attack, block, or parry. Dashing RDs beat out most attacks, blocking & parrying just guarantee one, the best thing to do would be to jump, and you would have to do that before the freeze frame, this is where you could set up some mind games, you could dash in & see what the opponent does, if he jumps you could punish that with a quick c.hp.

And yes I know Ricky always DPs demon flips, I’ve played him.

And I still consider lp DP -> SAI good. I’m not saying do a DP while an opponent jumps in and see if they parry so you can cancel into SAI (which is a good tactic btw since it would leave you in a safe position and would discourage you opponent from jumping in) I’m saying if you find your self in situation where you can punish the opponent like lets say you parry Ryu’s DP, then s.hp -> lk tatsu, lp DP -> SAI would be a good option to consider.

Alright, just curious tsukaihatasu, if you did find yourself in a situation where you could punish your opponent and you only had 1 stock of SAI, what combo would you go for.

33

c.MK > SAI if it would kill and I’m in trouble, or c.HP > j.DP if not and save the meter to land RD later.

My 1st priority as a Akuma player is to land RD always. That’s why I play with him and it has always been my reason since I first started playing with him years ago.

–tsukaihatasu

34

Not trying to put you on the spot or corner you or anything but let me warp my question a little.

This is tournament play, you have 1/8 of your original life left, you only have on stock of SAI, you jump in on a Ryu with absolutely no bar left, and looking for an easy win he hp DPs you but you parry. Would you still go for the same option before or would opt for something different.

Personally I would go for the most damaging combo I can if that was my situation. I dont always go for that lp DP -> SAI combo, I always see if an RD or a KKZ is an option.

35

In that situation, I wouldn’t have even jumped in at all. I have total advantage and he has to come to me which means I will definitely win the match, but I’ll play along.

In that situation I would jump in with air HP fireball > air SAI, pretty close to the ground so he couldn’t dash under. Ryu would uppercut and be killed.

If I parried, like you would, I would just press HP while he was falling. He has no power, so he dies. Why risk missing a combo when he has no power?

–tsukaihatasu

36

I think you misunderstood me, you have hardly no life left, Ryu still has plenty of of life left, my bad, when I said bar I meant super bar so he couldn’t cancel the DP into anything on reaction to your parry.

37

Why jump in on Ryu if he has a perfect and you have nothing? I’ll play along again.

I would st.HP > j.DP > SAI or c.MK > SAI. These are hard to miss and hit confirmable, so I would play it safe. On the other hand, I wouldn’t even put myself in that situation in the first place. On a jump in where you KNOW they can’t resist DP, you should use air SAI. But you shouldn’t rush in a situation like that if you still have any kind of time left on the clock. It’s best to come back by wearing your opponent down.

I personally find myself in desperate situations like this all the time, and I almost always comeback and win by simply being patient.

–tsukaihatasu

38

why is ur goal always to land raging demon, i guess u just play him dif. which is cool i mean i’m asking why do u not like to play mind games, pressure and frustrate people it seems u are playina a sparingly active turtle akuma.

39

the Ragin’ is the tightest move in fighting game history. It is the essence of Akuma. His first appearance was RD on Bison. Its the only reason I liked Gouki from the start. Did I say I don’t play mind games? Of course I confuse people. Its the only way to land lots of RD.

–tsukaihatasu

40

It was hypothetical, I was just trying to place you in a punishment situation.