probably prevent rogs from headbutting towards another side after knocking down opponents?
There are good possibilities for the cl.mp change.
After a cr.jab you’re +4 if blocked and +7 if it hits, meaning you get a 2 frame link to a special cancellable move for decent damage, or if it it’s blocked then cl.mp takes 6 frames to come out so you’ll still get a counter-hit against characters with a 3 frame short if they crouch tech. Not to mention you can finish your combos with rush upper which is -1 if it hits not -2 so Chun can’t super you on reversal.
Aaaaaaand you can rush upper after a jump in against someone crouching with it as well. I think having just a 2 frame link to a medium attack that is special cancellable rather than a 1 frame link to cr.mp is not bad in itself, although I guess cl.mk does that already.
The headbutt nerf is annoying. I think it will definitely ruin crossup headbutt games as you may recover the same from the headbutt you hit, but the one you use to crossup will take longer to recover and you’ll get hit in recovery when before the other player would have still been in standup frames. The damage nerf is no issue, I always wonered why it was more than rush punches anyway. I really wonder at their logic for this, it is terrible compared to other similar moves. I wouldn’t even mind if you had to use EX headbutt to combo to Ultra if all the headbutts were altered to be better (faster startup preferably).
The Dirty Bull change might be useful if it had good startup invicibility as you could anti air with it, but unfortunately not 
The standing jab change removes a great/abusable range/pressure tool, it sucks, but to be honest I’m all for consistency. I find it annoying that some moves work on some characters but not others. That’s just what you get with a game based on hitboxes.
That’s what I thought so too.
But still… you can’t increase the recovery of a move on whiff/block and keep it the same on hit for headbutt (it’s a one hit, very straightforward move). The translation is iffy on that.
To achieve that they’d have to do one or more of these things:
a) Increase the recovery of the move (this applies to any situation… just like every move)
b) Decrease blockstun caused (making your opponent recover fast, not you recover slower)
c) The most plausible: Increased juggle height and total/recovery frames and/or vertical distance from the move.
By increasing the juggle height and the number of frames on the move, you’re recovering slower than before on whiff/block/hit, but the opponent takes the same amount of time to reach the ground if you do hit.
b) seems pretty plausible to me.
But if it’s c) then I want one of the dash punches to juggle after the HB 
Oh and after TAP that catches your opp in the air too…
hmm…either way its not a good news for balrogs in my opinion, but i’ll still stick to rog as main… playstyle probably wouldnt change much for rog users other than having to take longer to kill opponents with headbutt-ultra…
Their juggle numbers are different =)
Headbutt starts the count at 2 or something, which is why neither TAP nor Rush Punch connect after it, I believe.
But that is easily changed
Make it happen Ono!!!
No-one’s mentioned buffs or nerfs in hitboxes. An idea like buffing a pretty useless normal like cl.mp HAS to mean that there are other minute changes that make something like this useful. In general, any situation where you can use cl.mp, cl.mk is always a better option simply because it did more damage and it came out faster.
Forcing stand gives it some uses, but that utility is moot with all else equal. Look for more subtle changes in AE or on the final console release. More headbutt recovery could make UKD cross-ups more ambiguous since it recovers slow enough to make it look punishable. I’ve got my fingers crossed on this one.
and on a side note, having played abel as an alternate for a bit, st.lp destroys abel from neutral, if he’s knocked you down that’s a different story, but his moveset doesn’t have anything to combat st.lp, gief too. This balances out the matchup so a single tactic doesn’t get abused heavily. Keep in mind that gief/abel can’t move forward while they’re crouching the whiffed st.lp and nothing (i’m pretty sure) they can do will hit it during recovery, especially if you’re at max range.
I just don’t understand the logic (or lack thereof) of further nerfing of the headbutt. I mean it already had horrible recovery compared to other DPs in the game and against anyone decent you were already getting a beatdown if you missed one.
I agree it is surely THE absolute worst reversal / AA move in the game. It’s startup is horrible, it’s recovery horrible (and now worse!) and it’s damage is now worse.
On an unrelated note I also read that Ryu (yes RYU!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:) has received multiple buffs. OMG Capcom = a joke
IkI
50
Maybe they reduced headbutt damage because now we have the ability to loop a crouching opponent and inflict almost 300 damage with a simple jab and one meter hahahaha ! (cr.lp, cl.mp, exdash upper, cr.lp, cr.lk, hb)
I hit you 3 times, you re dead ! It would be awesome but the range of cl.mp sux so much that this situation wont happen
Scaling makes that scenario totally unrealistic. Go to training mode, do a 4 EX Upper HB loop and see how much it does, and note how bad the scaling rapes it.
Andy-E
52
it may also now be possible to use cls.mp xx headbutt to frametrap crouch techs, similar to urien’s s.mp xx headbutt in third strike.
i imagine that into super/ultra could make it pretty scary for anyone who mashes crouch tech.
What are you talking about?
He hits you 3 times, you’re dead.
The only way you won’t die is if cl.mp doesn’t come out. Because it sux. But if it does come out… You’re screwed man.
:rolleyes:
Boxer does good damage with normals and single moves for the most part.
His >4hit combos? Nop. All garbage. If you don’t hit confirm anything he does… goodie. If you do, screw it.
An EX upper loop that ends with headbutt is always 5-6 hits unless you don’t hit confirm the EX upper.
EX upper > c.lp > c.lk xx Hp Headbutt (4 hits)
Anything before the EX upper, for hit confirm purposes: >4.
Which translates into “shitdamageomgbbqscaling”.
Getting an ultra after that is a waste of ultra meter unless the opponent is about to die, or your meter is already full.
You’ll probably do more damage from a well-placed chipdamage ultra, than from the ultra itself after 5-6 hits.
EazyG
54
for you guys talking about how bad the damage scaling on RU loops is, are you all doing c.jab xx c. mp?
I doubt it, if you are, you certainly wouldn’t be talking about it being a weak punishment option. Linking the c.mp instead of c.lk makes it well worth it to at least go for a 2nd RU.
You’re right that getting an ultra after it is a waste of time though, but when you’re doing more damage than his normally hit confirmed ultra combo, i guess that’s ok?
I’ve been re-training myself NOT to ultra after a 4/5 hit HB BnB’s any more, but i now realized (duh) why some high level players do it anyway. Not for damage, just to get um into the corner. On someone like Dhalsim, very effing nasty.
XKenoX
56
Oh Abel how I shall hate that match now. Well st. lp whiffing on all characters sucks but that means the footsie game has to be stepped up even more now. I will work with whatever cl. mp offers. At the end of the day there shouldn’t be anymore bitching about Balrog being cheap. When we win, damn it we earned it for sure this time!! But yes I am sad by the changes! Lets just be glad we aren’t Seth and Blanka LMFAO!
Porter
57
If anyone thinks anyone in SSF4 is cheap they need to get their head checked.
If far lp is whiffing on crouching opponents now, then make overhead ~ c.lk hit on everybody. Since the overhead isn’t that great of a move in the first place, I don’t see why they couldn’t change that combo. Also making Drity Bull not shit would be nice ;).
Porter
59
Give it an damage boost and I’ll use it more (I use it occasionally to mix it up, idk)
hopefully dudley gets buffs so dudley can beat balrog! Yes “dream must come true”. =D Balrog still got mah respect but it’s dudleys time to shine!!!
