21

At least Seth is worse. And it is not like the more drastic changes though all the Alpha series, and SFIII2nd to 3rd, generally speaking. You are still in a better position to beat people whose character lost core elements for its gamplay, and which in this beginning state will be more clumsy while trying to adapt to the new form.

*i don’t play him, just felt like giving my opinion about this update.

22

I’m surprised that there is such a unanimous outcry against these changes. Except for the changes to st. jab which is obviously a straight up nerf in a very select few matches, Rog’s overall damage is going to increase because of this. No doubt in my mind.

Headbutt nerf: So the damage will be reduced. Probably not by a whole lot, and now it’s going to be more punishable on block or whiff. Good opponents were punishing that anyway, and with damage scaling, any headbutt you combo’d into (except off your OH) will mitigate the scope of the nerf a fair amount. I’m certain that U1 will still combo. You have forever to do it now, and losing a couple frames isn’t going to change it enough to ruin that.

U2 motion: eh unless the range is enough to punish blocked srk’s, it will still suck.

Cl. MP causing stand?? This is huge. For you guys saying it’s worthless if you do more than one c. jab… well duh? I really don’t understand your reasoning. Rog has 0 reliable options as it is on an opponent mashing crouch tech after the second c. jab. You can’t tick throw, your CH setups at that range end with dash straight, unless you can hit confirm off of 1 hit, and do a headbutt (which pretty much nobody does because of the risk involved). Good players will reaction block an overhead as well. So, in essence, your offensive options after 2x c.jab haven’t changed at all based on these patch notes. But we already knew Rog had a weak offense.

But now we get the ability to combo crouchers with rushupper loops, getting the same damage and stun we would get out of c. medium punch, AND it’s now a 2 frame, still-plinkable link. Not to mention, because it comes out in 6 frames, we don’t have to worry about getting thrown out of the CH setup like we do with st. RH. Rog will be getting dizzy combos in 1 throw, and 1 rush upper loop on the weaker members of the cast assuming you do all your links with cl mp, and c. mp for the finisher. Also, if you miss your link, and the opponent tried to jump, they get hit because st. mp is a reliable AA.

Rog is going to have insanely punishing CH setups that he never had before. I’m stoked.

23
  • Near version s.MP’s damage is slightly decreased. It now forces stand, and is special cancel-able

*Well cs.MP was already useless and it gets a buff and a nerf. I can see some new things coming from it I guess.

  • Far version s.LP whiffs on all crouchers

*One of the few wishes I had for Boxer coming into the next patch was that fs.LP would hit all crouchers. This way his only BnB combo without a charge s.LP > c.HK would work on everyone. Instead I get the exact opposite of what I was hoping for.

  • Buffalo Head now has more ground recovery frames + damage is decreased

*This one is a bit confusing, it already has terrible recovery since it can be punished by ultras and what not so I don’t see the point in adding more recovery frames. Also the damage was already decreased from vanilla to super, and it was never a high damaging move to begin with. So I’m not sure what they’re trying to accomplish.

  • U2 motion changed from 720P to HCBx2

*My second wish was for U2 to actually be useful, like remove the stun and give it worthwhile damage, increase the range, or anything to make it actually useful. The motion change doesn’t make it more useful at the slightest.

In the end Boxer will remain pretty much the same, just a bunch of really pointless changes that won’t effect him in the long run.

24

you can already quasi force stand with c.mp on the problem characters (blanka/bison) AND you can keep your down charge while doing it

25

Yes indeed, but it’s quite rare to get in this situation.

relief ! Mixup are maintained !

Hum, maybe special moves now hit after HB, that’s why they reduced damage :smiley:
U1 will always hit after HB, it has to be, else it doesn’t make any sense

26

Yes it’s rare, that’s why is good to have another option to maximize damage and mostly stun.

It’s rare to get any combo with boxer because he has no crossup and no c.lk c.lp chain. Most of the time you combo c.lp, c.lk when your opp is advancing on you and that means he is already standing standing.

But maybe we get something like dudleys 2x c.lp, s.hk xx EX MGB. That would be really good. Lets hope for the best.

27

I Still don’t see how many of these are good.

Obviously you cant combo 2 jab into cs. standing mp due to pushback? Will it work in corners? Also seems more like a buff for jump ins on on crouch low/punish can now start the loop if they are crouching or sweeping.

his bnb combo was already pretty weak, now headbutt is weaker and more punishable and trades all the time and gets beat by low attacks aways… Non ex headbutt has got to be worthless now as an AA or reversal.

jumpable ultra 2 still jumpable
Seriously though… Capcom idea of balance is nerfing everyone and everything

28

I think these changes are definitely going to make rog worse overall. Headbutt doing less damage doesn’t really bother me but far st. LP not hitting big characters will really make some of Rog’s hard matchups even harder. He will no longer be able to pressure Sagat, Gief, with st. jabs.

I think any serious Rog player knows that changing the motion for Dirty Bull does absolutely nothing for it’s usefulness. It still has worse recovery than Zangief’s Ultra, still does very little damage, still has no range, still doesn’t completely stun any characters when full (not even seth who has the lowest stun meter in the game), still 1+1 startup which means it’s jumpable… all in all… still useless.

Close standing Medium punch forcing stand AND being special cancellable could open up some new combo opportunities to get bigger damage on crouchers so I’m looking forward to that.

Like I said earlier, damage nerf on headbutts isn’t that bad but why give it more recovery? It already had very poor recovery and now it will be terrible for advancing slowly thru fireballs while building meter ST style.

I wish they explained what was their reasoning behind these nerfs. St. jab not hitting crouchers is understandable but why so much nerfing on the headbutt?

29

Do we know if the recovery changes on the Headbutt will effect the ultra juggle after ?. Not being able to do ultra after a HB would be devastating. I like the Close standing mp change I reckon doing cs.mp , rush loop with c.lp , c,mp and HB would do major stun and dmg.

30

Their reasoning? Because they look at a few forum post, and see people whining about it.

What else do you expect? It’s Capcom. We’ve been here for way too long to expect them to actually do shit correct.

Oh and ditto on what you said. Pretty much hit everything spot on. :shake:

31

Okay. The changes to rog are bad for him. The nerf to the standing far jab hurts his pressure game on zangief, sagat, abel, rufus, fei long, hakan, t hawk, honda, etc. He cant do untechable knockdowns on any of these characters if they are crouching anymore so we have to get at point blank range and do crouching jab into standing med punch into standing jab into sweep, which is a much more difficult combo to land. Recovery and damage reduction on balrog sucks because we wont be able to do crossup shenenigans after landing the headbutt, plus if you miss a headbutt a bigger punishment is coming your way. Its still not useful to use dirty bull because you can land ultra 1 after headbutt, dirty bull is still a hit or miss.

32

Pointless recovery nerf on HB. Why? Limit random clean HBs? OK so now we have to do it off a combo, but wait, they nerfed the damage on it? Oh well, I guess it’s turtle style all day.

33

Everyone is overestimating the usefulness of the cs.MP buff, it’s only +1 on hit so you’re not gonna be able to link s.LP > c.HK after it. At most all it does is allow us to do ex.upper loops on crouching opponents. Once more it has terrible range so you practically have to do c.LP > cs.MP at point blank range for it to connect reliably. Trying to plug in two c.LP will have the cs.MP whiff in most cases.

EDIT:

I guess we can also say that HB is probably one of the worse reversals in the game. Slow startup (easy to safe jump, even without a proper setup), slow recovery, low damage, can’t be FADC, no longer reliable for closing distance against fireballs, etc. Why does Capcom hate this move so much? Even in it’s original vanilla form it was still bad compared to a typical SRK, so why do they beat it with the nerf stick every chance they get? I hate when developers release patch notes with absolutely no explanation to their reasonings behind the changes.

34

i totally agree here

35

c.forward, cls.strong xx RU loops are now possible. and the hit confirm for that combo is still safe except from grapplers.

without s.jab for pressure though, rog will now be so much more vulnerable to command grabs. I think the gief-boxer MU just went down to 6.5-3.5.

36

After thinking about it…I don’t mind if we lose headbutt mixups, as long as trade headbutt>ultra is still in

37

Supposedly the headbutt recovery is only if it’s blocked or whiffed, not on hit so hopefully his headbutt “crossups” still work on hit.

I was playing around with the cls.strong as a cr tech punish and it works pretty good. Since you get the counter hit and a force stand, comboing into st. jap xx sweep should be possible. As well as going right into ex uppers off the cls. strong which will be good.

Just have to wait and see how all this pans out, I suppose

38

All I;m worried about is how horrible the Abel match-up is now. It was 5-5 at best while it should be 6-4 now

39

Guys having rogs s.lp hit every croucher would almost be broken.

The s.lp change kind of sucks but that doesnt mean the move is going to suck now. far s.lp covers so much range of a jab it is crazy.

Also cl s.mp change is huge.

40

I phucking FEARRRRRRRRR playing good Abels now without far jab. OMG.