Confession time: 3-button fighter aversity

[dj_de]

i said complete reliance, meaning no punch/kick references. I also mentioned that in my first post.

a b c = lp mp fp

[sfried]

Yes. And of course, move properties change with that as well since that new normal would be different from one done off of a neutral position.

EDIT - You post on AN and you had a HnK av(said Hokuto-ism or something). I figured you’d had played HnK and knew about that.

In HnK, you change the properties of the buttons attacks when you press two strongs or the punch and kick together.

[gridman]

most 3 button games blow anyways.

[DS]

most 3 button games blow anyways.

If only there were truth to that.

[Sleazoid]

You know I never understood what the hell the buttons meant in the old layout anyway.

Roundhouse can be equated to kicks, but fierce can be used for punches or kicks. Jabs don’t correlate with ‘strong or fierce’, short is a neasure of height and what not, and forward makes no sense whatsoever as it’s an actual direction.

Yeah, but well… can you come up with a better sounding alternative to Jab and Roundhouse? :looney:

Jabs are the weakest attacks in boxing, but also the fastest and arguably the most important. I think it’s a hell of a lot better than calling it something like weak punch or light, which doesn’t really say much about the button aside from that it is weak.

(I like to think Short and Forward both correspond to the range or amount of space controlled by those attacks)

In HnK, you change the properties of the buttons attacks when you press two strongs or the punch and kick together.

(If I’m correctly understanding the reason you posted that,) HnK has command normals too, man.

[sfried]

a b c = lp mp fp

That’s what I said. There’s no problems since I still would be able to equate things to a punch or a kick, only with different strengths.

In 3 button fighters, a weak attack would do one abitrarily chosen movement and then the strong attack would do another completely arbitrary chosen movement. Do they punch with A and kick with B? Is C grab? Those are the first things that come to my mind when trying to asses the moves and movesets with only 3 buttons.

HnK has command normals too, man.

If I understand right, the command normals are used for things like grab, which aren’t immediate. Varying punch and kicks are immedate actions, so I find it hard when they try to map a punch to something like forward+A, especially if a special move is logically linked to it.

[DS]

In 3 button fighters, a weak attack would do one abitrarily chosen movement and then the strong attack would do another completely arbitrary chosen movement. Do they punch with A and kick with B? Is C grab? Those are the first things that come to my mind when trying to asses the moves and movesets with only 3 buttons.

Depends on the game. Arcana Heart 1 was 3 attacks and a 4th for special Arcana moves. A+D(D is the Arcana button) was throw command in the game. Some games will just use forward+whatever rather than two button throws.

It depends on the game, really.

[Sakura.Densetsu]

They aren’t punches and kicks, they are pixels that give a visual reference of where the kick-ass is located on the screen.

Though when first learning a character where you do not have a move list, yes it is more consistant if punch moves are on punch and kick moves are on kick (which is where your issue is). But games nowadays have movelists.

You are getting too lost in the flavour of the character and the game to equate that to game mechanics. That is the same kind of n00b msitake that makes people pick characters based on either canon or that they look cool. It is fine for casual messing around, but if you ever want to play well enough to truly get anything out of these games you need to grow past this.

Truthfully, a good fighter just needs black blobs showing where they are and what can hit them with protruding glowing bits showing what they can hit with. Super Turbo would still be Super Turbo if the characters were replaced with said blobs. It would take maybe a little while for the top players to relearn the visual clues but it would not change the gameplay in anyway.

[sfried]

Depends on the game. Arcana Heart 1 was 3 attacks and a 4th for special Arcana moves. A+D(D is the Arcana button) was throw command in the game. Some games will just use forward+whatever rather than two button throws.

It depends on the game, really.

As you said, those three attacks’ movements are not consistent with all the characters other than strength, which is rather hard to grasp immediately just based on looking. And I believe forward+punch is the standard grab attack.

You are getting too lost in the flavour of the character and the game to equate that to game mechanics. That is the same kind of n00b msitake that makes people pick characters based on either canon or that they look cool. It is fine for casual messing around, but if you ever want to play well enough to truly get anything out of these games you need to grow past this.

I never said anything about the flavour of the characters, but rather the kind of action they take with one attack button. In fact, it’s the whole “arbitrarily assigned animation which equates to a weak attack” that bugs me. I do need visual cues and feedback to tell me I am proceeding with the correct button presses, that way I have fast response to corrections in case I do mixup my controls (and with people having their own setups, it’s most likely). I don’t want to realize that late in the game.

[DS]

As you said, those three attacks’ movements are not consistent with all the characters other than strength, which is rather hard to grasp immediately just based on looking. And I believe forward+punch is the standard grab attack.

Forward+whatever is not the standard nowadays. A lot of games are using two button throws. Play more games.

Also, your post is just making things a little too complicated. You’re trying to make it sound like a science, when it really isn’t. Just dick around and learn. It’s not that hard to push buttons and see what works well and what doesn’t and which button does what.

[sfried]

Wait, what?

…

I think you’re just making things convoluted. Just break it down in your mind that an attack can be of different strengths regardless of what body part it’s coming from. Come to expect what attack will come out from a button press, not by the way the button is labeled, but how the character plays instead.

It would be very hard to interpret what move is being executed if I have not familiarized myself with what attack was used.

It’s not that hard to push buttons and see what works well and what doesn’t and which button does what.

Not when I’m not even familiar with which animation corresponds to what and nothing in the game tells me. (This is the part where the arrows + button list doesn’t help.)

[Sleazoid]

Not when I’m not even familiar with which animation corresponds to what and nothing in the game tells me.

• Play practice mode
• If there is no practice mode, learn to block first, then practice
• Spam B, 2B, and jumping C. Mash 2A like a clown if you get too close.
• Quit game if all else fails, nobody is telling you to play games you aren’t familiar with

[DS]

Not when I’m not even familiar with which animation corresponds to what and nothing in the game tells me. (This is the part where the arrows + button list doesn’t help.)

There’s a ton of threads here that link to move lists and whatnot. There’s even dustloop.com for GG and whatnot.

The “arrows + buttons” list helps if you know how to read it. It’s not hard to read arrows and buttons. Of course, if you’re playing the game in Japanese, then you’d have to read up online for it. Not that hard.

[Neokarsh]

All the Guilty Gear’s that matter AKA Guilty Gear X onward use 5 buttons.

I’m pretty sure X had 4 buttons (P, K, S, HS).

It would be very hard to interpret what move is being executed if I have not familiarized myself with what attack was used.

I can understand what you’re trying to say to a point, but all it takes is a few minutes in practice mode to know what your character can do. It sounds as though you aren’t putting in any effort towards that.

[Radiantsilvergun3]

I’m pretty sure X had 4 buttons (P, K, S, HS).

They used two buttons for Dust in X huh?

[Neokarsh]

Yes, S and HS.

[KarnovKarnov]

(I like to think Short and Forward both correspond to the range or amount of space controlled by those attacks)

It’s pretty awesome how for Roundhouse, a bunch of characters (Ken, Chun, Guile, Ryu…) actually did roundhouse kicks!

But in SF2WW, Ken/Ryu’s standing short and standing forward had the same animation…

“Fierce punch” was an awesome name for a punch, nevermind how much or how little sense it made. I’ll never understand why “strong punch” is the middle punch, though… I remember when I first saw they labelled buttons when I was young, I wondered which one is supposed to be “stronger”: “Strong” or “Fierce”

[sfried]

• Play practice mode
• If there is no practice mode, learn to block first, then practice
• Spam B, 2B, and jumping C. Mash 2A like a clown if you get too close.
• Quit game if all else fails, nobody is telling you to play games you aren’t familiar with

That’s…not really going to help with figuring out supers.

The “arrows + buttons” list helps if you know how to read it. It’s not hard to read arrows and buttons. Of course, if you’re playing the game in Japanese, then you’d have to read up online for it. Not that hard.

I’m not saying I don’t know how to read arrows + buttons. I’m saying they should have a picture which corresponds to the move. It’s the only way to confirm I’ve executed the move correctly and not have pulled off some other move.

I can understand what you’re trying to say to a point, but all it takes is a few minutes in practice mode to know what your character can do. It sounds as though you aren’t putting in any effort towards that.

I’ll try again, but I don’t have those games listed with me. If someone can lead me to a 3-buttoned freeware fighting game for practice…(I was thinking Super Cosplay Wars, but then I realized it was 4-buttoned.)

[Sakura.Densetsu]

I never said anything about the flavour of the characters, but rather the kind of action they take with one attack button. In fact, it’s the whole “arbitrarily assigned animation which equates to a weak attack” that bugs me. I do need visual cues and feedback to tell me I am proceeding with the correct button presses, that way I have fast response to corrections in case I do mixup my controls (and with people having their own setups, it’s most likely). I don’t want to realize that late in the game.

What you are describing IS Flavor. It has no relevance to the mechanics of the game at all. You are making mechanical judgements based on colored pixels that looks like punches and kicks. They are not punches or kicks at all. I do see where you are coming from and on some levels agree.

[DS]

I’m not saying I don’t know how to read arrows + buttons. I’m saying they should have a picture which corresponds to the move. It’s the only way to confirm I’ve executed the move correctly and not have pulled off some other move.

So what you’re saying is that you want a picture book…Right. Watch videos and practice. Not that hard.