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trades like hell and as anti air we allrdy had crane u1. fireball can be punished with oga => mantis / crane ultra aswell. tho, it can be nice as mind games vs fire ball characters.
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and does shitty damage… mp, mk, lk gekiro dominates hands all day long^^
i’ve been thinking about some of the changes gen has in ssf4 which makes him closer to his a3 incarnation more than anything.
his hp/ex hands comes out in 3 frames now, which is pretty much instant in the world of sf4. only thing faster are gief and t hawks command grab. with his 3 frame hands, this should be a better move to interrupt attacks than before and maybe even stop some throw attempts. like alpha 3 you can probably just throw it out after his snake drill, well spaced dive kicks, or after his crane standing mp overhead.
also regarding gens crane super. it comes out in 2 frames, which means safe jumping isn’t possible against him. this gives him the fastest anti air in the game tied along with hakans oil combination hold ultra.
yea I need to get on that Crane super goodness. Seems to me that saving super meter is much more important this time around, especially since he builds it slower. Although it’s easier to FADC hands now, I really don’t see much point besides the occassional added pressure and surprise. Otherwise I save my meter for supers and EX Gekrio.
Good point on hands being faster. 3 frames is the speed of the fastest jabs. I think someone mentioned in one of these threads that the new hands speed will help keep Bison’s LK scissor pressure in check. I’ve yet to try, but it sounds reasonable in theory.
I really wish they would kept at least one of his jump arcs from vanilla. It’s really fucking up my safe jumps and pressure against certain characters. I swear I can’t safe jump Balrog’s headbut anymore. That shit is ALWAYS trading with my crossup now. Did they buff it or is my timing of? I also find it harder to keep up with run-away Vegas witth the slower jump speed.
IMO, he is too different to even compare to A3 Gen. Heck, he even has a different hairstyle and a stupid bun on his head, and now he’s too obsessed with the “two fingers” style. Zan’ei looks less cooler thanks to that. Also, he talks so much louder that he can almost “be heard for miles” :lol:. It would be better to say A3 version was Gen II and SSF4 version is Gen IV.
This is what I felt after playing for a few days now: The thing that got worse in crane c.HP compared to a3 is the “game mechanics”, or w/e you call it. If you trade in A3, it was counter hit for both, but now, it’s just a simple trade.
hahah yeah when console SF4 first got released I was like wtf Gen talks too damn much. Plus all hsi damn win quotes are about death now, or some “cris of anguish in the underworld” shit. Come on now. I just want to hear him say you a big fool. They went overboard in his whole death obession in his win quotes, esepcially in vanilla SF4. I havent seen all his new quotes in super yet.
“We are dying the moment we are born.”
I friggin love that.
or death is a bitter medicine that we all must drink i do not cower before it.
i dont know gen may be different but i still fun to play and getting use to his new jumps are going to take time, i dont know maybe since i play akuam or other characters the different jumps help me out with gen jump.
So is there still no point to KKK s.mk and s.lk or has someone found a use for them?
What I’ve found now is lk.Gekiro kicks are better for building meter after knock downs and across screen than previous lp.hands in Vanilla. Just incase anyone didn’t notice.
Crane s.mk is actually a pretty healthy poke now.
It’s one frame slower than Hakan’s ultra, so it’s still possible to safe jump Gen.
huh? i’m really confused now. based on the prima frame data and the frame data you found for gen, they look like they have the same startup of 2 frames.
so does gens crane super come out in 2 frames or 3? even if gens super comes out in 3, it shouldn’t be possible to safe jump him since shoto dps comes out in 3 frames and it isn’t possible to safe jump them either.
Shoto dps still hit you while on the ground during your jumping attack recover frames(2 frames). Crane super can’t grab grounded opponents.
damn, i forgot all about that
how is the frame data for crane c.mp? everything else seems legit from http://www.sfframedata.com/walkthrough/pages/gen.php
First post of this thread says that it’s -3/-1, and that crane c.HK is -16/-12.
I wrote c.mp and meant it, but when i searched the thread for c.mp frame data i looked for c.mk >_< should get some sleep lol
I think ssf data is mostly correct… but dunno exactly. only c.mp seems to be wrong. c.hk could be aswell. but it has a soo awful recovery that i would even buy if it’s -40 on hit >_>
Hope we’ll get the frame data 100% correct. Now that the videos are there it shouldn’t take that long. unfortenatly i dont know how to measure it correctly.
I hope I’m doing this correctly.
As for start-up frame data, you count the very first frame that has long yellow horizontal box as frame 1, and count one by one until you see a red solid box. For example, crane c.MP has red solid box at the 5th frame, thus having start-up of 5.
For active frame data, you simply count the number of frames with red solid box. Crane c.MP has red solid box for 4 frames, being active by 4.
Recovery frame data puzzles me.
I think it might even be impossible to judge recovery frames based on the videos, because sometimes recovery animations can continue to play even when the character is able to act again. The other problem with using the videos for frame data is that there’s no way to judge hitstun/blockstun and frame advantage. The way I tested frame data relied on a trick with Gen’s two different jump speeds that lets me actually count off frame advantage, one frame at a time.
Fun test: Mash mantis s.MK as fast as you can. Gen will actually move forward slightly with each kick. If you do it slowly and let the animation play out entirely, he won’t move forward.
Here’s the reason I don’t trust the Prima info, though. If they aren’t even as accurate as my training mode tests, what if they’re wrong about something that I haven’t noticed? Bad info could be accepted as fact, so it’s worse than simply not knowing something at all.
Sorry guys. Posted in wrong thread.