Competitive or not

[Keits]

The execution barrier is slowly growing with Brawl.

[media=youtube]uV8NmhSBXmw[/media]

Dribbling with Diddy = L + C-stick direction + Control stick direction (all three inputs near simultaneous) then about 10-20 frames later with precise timing, the A button (don’t know exactly how many frames or how big the window is because of no AR). There are so many variations that happen with dribbling too that are hard to master, most of which involve pivoting after the dribble.

This is not an excecution barrier. This is something you need only bother with if you are a Diddy player, and you have 35 or so other characters to choose from if you dont want to deal with putting this to muscle memory. Melee’s problem was they you pretty much needed one or two of the universal techniques/glitches to even begin to become competitive.

[System_1]

This is not an excecution barrier. This is something you need only bother with if you are a Diddy player, and you have 35 or so other characters to choose from if you dont want to deal with putting this to muscle memory. Melee’s problem was they you pretty much needed one or two of the universal techniques/glitches to even begin to become competitive.

dude shut up and go play mario party.

[Tigerboi]

dude shut up and go play mario party.

BECAUSE ONLY REALL MEN PLAY BRAWL.

Oh wait…

Anyway, Is there a problem with what he said? His statement sounds about right to me.

Alpha: you make it sound as if DSHLing is hard. lol.

[Keits]

There is stuff out there for many characters, off the top of my head:
Infinite second jumps with most characters (Marginally useful)
Infinite clawing with Bowser (One of the more useful applications of the above)
Mortar Slide with Snake** (dirt easy)**
QACing with Pikachu (can be tricky, but is about 20x easier than l-canceling)
Ledge jump missiling with Samus (can be tricky, but again…)
Double short hop lasers with Falco** (this one is difficult, ill admit that)**
Weird ass shit using the PK fire with Ness/Lucas that is possible without B-sticking (this stuff is hard too)

You’ve spent to much time trying to justify items instead of learning how almost every character has little odds and ends that they can do to fuck you up.

I have? really? You must have placed your trueman-show-style hidden cameras on the wrong keits then. The real one has been frequenting chicago/milwaukee area tournaments (items off, bitch) and getting better at the game (which i told you months ago, if you think people who are new cant become good, you are an even bigger fool than I originally thought.)

So, ‘off the top of your head’, you named things for only 3 characters that are remotely difficult, you left out one of the obvious ones (metaknight infinite teleport), and you included some super easy and/or marginally useful stuff with a few other characters… leaving you proving my point. You do not NEED that stuff to play brawl and win. Period.

[Keits]

You wont find a single player who uses Pikachu and says QACing isn’t nessesary. Nor will you find any Snakes who would be willing to give up mortar sliding.

The only reason you don’t need that stuff to play Brawl and win is because MetaKnight exists (and I left out infinite teleporting because its banned almost universally at this point, even by EVO). However, to play certain character, like Diddy or Pikachu, and win requires a level of technical skill about equivalent to what was needed in Melee (minus Fox/Falco).

Your statement is

“Winning with Pika and Diddy requires some technical skill”

My statement is

“Winning does not require technical skill”

Are you seeing the difference? One is not forced to play as Pika or Diddy. And again, Mortar slide is one of the easiest things I’ve ever done in a fighting game. QAC isnt hard either. I was able to learn both of these in minutes, and im a VERY poor technical player.

In melee, you WERE ABSOLUTELY FORCED to learn to L-cancel, or you were fucked. Id be lucky to take one stock out of 4 off of my friends who were competitive in melee.

[Tigerboi]

yeah, I don’t see how anyone can call motar sliding a tech barrier. shit is stupid easy.

[DanielRGT]

My friend chris did the mortar slide and he told me how to do it.

I successfully did the mortar slide on my first try, doing it takes no technical skill.

[Tigerboi]

The shit just aint hard in general. I doesn’t even take practice.

[System_1]

Your statement is

“Winning with Pika and Diddy requires some technical skill”

My statement is

“Winning does not require technical skill”

Are you seeing the difference? One is not forced to play as Pika or Diddy. And again, Mortar slide is one of the easiest things I’ve ever done in a fighting game. QAC isnt hard either. I was able to learn both of these in minutes, and im a VERY poor technical player.

In melee, you WERE ABSOLUTELY FORCED to learn to L-cancel, or you were fucked. Id be lucky to take one stock out of 4 off of my friends who were competitive in melee.

dude i think you should try another game…like sc3 and use xianghua or something

[DanielRGT]

Thats what I thought about L-canceling and Wavedashing in Melee. Apparently though it really held some people back, so I assume everyone just sucks, therefor pressing down then up on the C-stick and the Z-button to mortar slide must be to hard. L-canceling was just one button, thats three!

What the fuck kinda crazy ass mortar sliding are YOU doing?

[Tigerboi]

Thats what I thought about L-canceling and Wavedashing in Melee. Apparently though it really held some people back, so I assume everyone just sucks, therefor pressing down then up on the C-stick and the Z-button to mortar slide must be to hard. L-canceling was just one button, thats three!

Ok, but, you do realize that Keit’s arguement here isn’t really how hard they are, but the fact that one of them HAD to be done for you to get anywhere in the melee circuit? There hasn’t been a single essential brawl tech yet.

and im sorry, I though they were not HARD, I found wding and lcing to be alot harder than fucking mortar sliding.

DC should really stop posting btw.

[DanielRGT]

Ok, but, you do realize that Keit’s arguement here isn’t really how hard they are, but the fact that one of them HAD to be done for you to get anywhere in the melee circuit? There hasn’t been a single essential brawl tech yet.

and im sorry, I though they were not HARD, I found wding and lcing to be alot harder than fucking mortar sliding.

DC should really stop posting btw.

And I agree with Keits points.

[Tigerboi]

Thats a no-hit mortar slide, where you don’t need to hit the opponent to do the slide.

wtf? That’s how I did it the FIRST TIME I ever did it. In ONE TRY.

He said you had to be technical to win in Melee and you don’t in Brawl. Except, you didn’t have to be technical in either game. In Melee, you could use Sheik or Peach in win. In Brawl there are just more Sheik and Peachs. To many people were cry babies when they got their asses stomped on with their favorite characters by Fox/Falco, when all they had to do was switch to Peach/Sheik if they didn’t want to learn how to actually play.

You just proved that you have to be technical in melee in this statement.

[DanielRGT]

I just think that saying to “not be technical and win in Melee, you can pick this character or two”

In comparison to Brawl, which has a lot more characters that don’t require being technical.

And the timing on the mortar slide is pretty lenient.

[Keits]

dude i think you should try another game…like sc3 and use xianghua or something

I like me over you in ANY other game. You have no idea who you are speaking at, son. I play everything.

EDIT - and for the record, i did main Peach in melee when I did bother playing it, and it was still extremely difficult to compete with people who were rushing my shit down with l canceled short hopped air attacks.

Melee and Brawl are like comparing night and day when it comes to the (currently) ammount of technical skills you need to possess to compete.

EDIT2 - Now i remember why i had you on ignore AZ. You are, somehow, even more hard headed than me.

[mugetsu]

My friends out in LA were SSBM masters, and haven’t gone back since.

The fact is metaknights, snakes, etc. are balanced in comparison to what is possible with most other characters.

I constant peach, lucas, ness, ganon, snake and sonic. One of my pals constants wario, luigi, CF and DK. The other uses zelda, samus/ ZSS, pokemon trainer, peach, and has an amazing IC.

Last weekend we had some unbelievably cinematic matches, and I would say they took more skill to accomplish good hits than even tekken or SF (though I love both).

The fact is people just need to discover the limits of the system, which is minimal. There is so many offensive and defensive movements and decisions to make at any one time that once you’ve come to terms with all of them the game play runs smooth as silk. To be able to setup attack strings, good rolling, dodging, grab placement for follow ups and being able to use ledge play to an advantage really ups the game play overall.

I know that right now theres alot of snakes and metaknights, but with the interest in the series so high now, creative uses for veteran characters and the other assortment of characters that seem unused in tournaments will start to show up more. I have some peach moves that I have yet to see in any brawl match videos, so I know that it’ll just take a few more months to get things really balanced out competitively.

Though I’m sure the people that really play SSBB to the bone know exactly what I’m talking about (if not more), some of you seem to be playing half-heartedly in the sense that there are more hardcore action oriented fighting games out there. SSBB proudly has a more definitive playing system, where if you are really as good as you claim to be, then whether you’re at 2% damage or 134%, you’ll still be able to come back and win it.

Outside of that, anyone know any good ways to film matches? I would love to be able to back up what I’m saying with video!

[System_1]

I like me over you in ANY other game. You have no idea who you are speaking at, son. I play everything.

EDIT - and for the record, i did main Peach in melee when I did bother playing it, and it was still extremely difficult to compete with people who were rushing my shit down with l canceled short hopped air attacks.

Melee and Brawl are like comparing night and day when it comes to the (currently) ammount of technical skills you need to possess to compete.

EDIT2 - Now i remember why i had you on ignore AZ. You are, somehow, even more hard headed than me.

i dont know how you cant freaking L cancel or wavedash and you play everything…

[Carbunkle_Flux]

@alphazealot:

Right. I’m totally going to pick Peach and/or Shiek and win we some melee tournaments for free, then. Apparently using them means I can bullshit the entire game and the people who actually bothered to learn it (IE- can attack me out of dashing and take a stock if I make a mistake) are totally on even ground with me who is learning/has learned nothing.

That is horrid, horrid logic.

[orochizoolander]

Why isn’t this thread closed jeez nasir is busy photoshopping pics and trying to make us believe it’s his cousin or what?

[X_x]

Why isn’t this thread closed jeez nasir is busy photoshopping pics and trying to make us believe it’s his cousin or what?

That’s the only possible explanation.