You can’t really remove one frame links from the game by changing up the frames. You can make the ones that already exist easier, sure, but then you’d just end up with new one frame links for people to come up with… possibly even better ones that people are gonna want to do instead and then you just have more complaining.
I guess they could make the some of the normals that link into each other into target combos or something but that’s not going to cover all the bases.
I think most of the links are fine the way they are though. If you attempt them and fail then that’s the risk you took when you could’ve played safe. Risk/reward… take your pick.
Attempting a link is exactly like attempting anything else. If you attempt it and miss, you get punished. Why should there be no risk?
I think people are just mad that they see other people pulling off things that they can’t do, and can’t be bothered to learn. It’s always the game’s fault.
Constant bitching about every aspect of the game. “Links are too hard, my character cant land free ultras off everything i want it to, my character needs more health, i should beat sagat and ryu with no effort”.
And stop saying street fighter needs to be more like shooting games. Yeah, and football needs to be more like swimming.
Its fairly easy to keep the game exactly the same but make “1 frame links” easier, just add an input buffer.
If your in the middle of an attack and are in your recovery frames if you input another attack have that move be performed the moment the character is recovered.
Same frame data, same combos. Pretty easy to do. The game already does with with Reversals, so I don’t understand why it doesn’t do this with Links. Seems like a contradiction in game design IMO.
My biggest complaint about 1Frame links is how it feels different on different TV’s due to HDTV lag. Compound with Online lag and its a whole mess.
Sure I can train myself in doing these combos but the moment I step online and or play at someone else’s setup my timing falls apart. I’m aware that timing for the combos are always the same regardless of online / tv, but I (like alot of people I bet) use the onscreen display / sound as cues for my combo Rhythm. So in a sense its like playing GH on a uncalibrated TV or without sound. Yes the timing is the same but its alot harder since your trained to work with certain visual / audio cues.
This is partially the reason I play less SF4 these days (well correction less SF4 at home) since my TV is a laggy pos. Training on it gives me the wrong timing for combos when I try to do them at the arcade or at someone else’s place. Having to buy a new TV for the game is a pretty craptastic thing to do.
My only pseudo-beef with input buffers is that…timing kind of goes out the window. Don’t get me wrong, it probably -is- a better idea, but that would make virtually any landed poke string turn into a hard hitting 1-frame link setup. Every single time I land a 2 jabs with guile it’d end with a fierce punch, that’s 140 damage solid every single time I ever just tap someone.
I wouldn’t really mind that, though. Just something to think about, the idea that just landing jabs and light kicks would be all that’s necessary to land your best combo’s. Is that a bad thing? Probably not, the execution still sort of has to be there and it would help out the lesser people, but I feel like competitive play would sort of boil down to “Who gets the first jab”. Granted, many of those people perform *jaw-dropped multi-1 frame link combos anyways *so in that regard it may not even change anything.
Its fairly easy to keep the game exactly the same but make “1 frame links” easier, just add an input buffer.
If your in the middle of an attack and are in your recovery frames if you input another attack have that move be performed the moment the character is recovered.
Same frame data, same combos. Pretty easy to do. The game already does with with Reversals, so I don’t understand why it doesn’t do this with Links. Seems like a contradiction in game design IMO.
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Sounds like you just want chain combos. Sure would make akuma vs characters that s.lp hits crouching on pretty broke…
They should make it so that if your opponent jumps the game will dragon punch for you too right?
^ See, this is the rapid response people will tend to go with at the first sign of dumbing things down (relative to it’s current state). It’s not at all irrational to jump to that sort of conclusion though, which is people’s obvious concern. The problem with asking to make 1 frame links more lenient is it opens the door to make other things easier.
Quite frankly, if they were going to change it, I’d say they just get rid of them. Remove the ability to 1-frame link anything. Making them easier goes into my point in my previous post, that turning 1-frame links into guaranteed high damage combos kind of takes away the point of even having to input the commands in the first place.
The first jab hits, just smack him for <Combo damage here> damage. It will occur either way.
Boiling it down, I think the argument would have to be whether or not to have 1-frame links to begin with, not how to make them easier.
So, how do you get rid of 1 frame links? Do you add 1 frame of startup to every move in the game? Then all the 2 frame links become 1 frame links.
I think people new to street fighter think that links are programmed into the game as specific combos and that the programmers decide to assign a certain amount of frames to link a move to another move. With this mentality people say “why would they make it so hard to link standing-LK to standing-HP?”
A link is hitting someone with a move while they are in hit stun from a previous move. Links are discovered by finding out what is possible. There are tons of links that the programmers probably didn’t even know could link. Players just find what is possible, and sometimes there is only 1 frame to link for something to be possible.
The only thing that can be done is to change frames on various moves, but this would just create new linking possibilities. You can’t not have 1 frame links. No matter what, something will do hit stun that another move has 1 frame to link off it. Links were an accident just like chains and cancels (2in1’s).
While removing 1 frame links would be stupid, it’s far from impossible Stay Crispy, just make hitstun and startup values always a multiple of 2, then execution will work a lot like the game is at 30fps.
Please read. I didn’t say it’s not important, I said that execution is the thing that LESS seperates the pro from the joe. It’s still an important aspect of the game, you’re absolutely right about that.
And Brawl… let’s be honest. I know there are serious players at this game, but seriously, the game WAS meant to be played by and meant to be more open to casual gamers than to pros. It’s from nintendo! lol
You’re probably seeing the whole thing way too general and not with my specific demands. But alright, this is your opinion as a more advanced player.
Let’s just leave it at that, and maybe quote Sirlin:
I’m sure a lot of people that are for keeping 1-frame links are here to thmp their chests and have no idea what you’re talking about
Keep in mind that I’m not saying everyone that is for keeping the links are. Clearly there are some here who are not just here to prove how cool they are.
That would be a pretty retarded length to go to just to make sure there are no 1 frame links, for no reason whatsoever. Making everything always be in even numbers just to get rid of something so small is beyond ridiculous. That is not a reasonable suggestion at all. Not to mention, the serial whiners will still complain about the 2 frame links. It will never be good enough for some people.
I love how people want something that is too hard for them, to be completely removed from the game. Seems like if they can’t do it, they don’t want anyone to be able to do it.
That’s the farthest from what I was asking or what…anyone was asking actually. Actually I wasn’t really asking for anything, just posing how the question should be asked. Saying that 1-frame links shouldn’t exist because they’re too hard to land reliably isn’t really an argument. That same thing could apply to virtually any aspect of Street Fighter which makes it inappropriate to ask.
If you are going to ask for 1-frame links to be made easier, you may as well just be asking whether or not you’d like them to be in the game. If you were to make 1-frame links “easier” they’d no longer be 1-frame links, by default every string of jabs would end in a fierce for Guile which guarantees like 150 damage. It’s no longer a question of execution, it’ll just happen, at that point you might as well just make every landed jab do the rest of the string for you, there’s no way you could screw it up barring terribly bad lag.
They obviously can’t be turned on or off like a switch, but capcom absolutely knows they’re there; the entire set of trial challenges for every single character is based on their existence. In fact, the very first trial is showing you your character’s 1 frame links and getting you to land them, the rest of the trials involve using them to hit confirm and land your ultra.
Several trials even involve multi-1-frame links, it’d be a tough point to argue that 1 frame links are a glitch that the player base discovered how to abuse, capcom wouldn’t put so much emphasis on them if they were.
I’m all for one-frame links. If capcom decides to make them easier, whatever, I think it’d water down the gameplay and remove consequences for inaccurate timing but if that’s the way it goes then so be it.
And, if they really wanted to, it’d be a lot of effort, but I don’t remotely doubt that they could remove 1-frame links just by disallowing the game to let certain attacks register combos off of each other (i.e. standing fierce would whiff if it were used 1 frame after a standing jab or the hit just wouldn’t register until the person was out of hit-stun and able to block the standing fierce). Obviously that won’t happen, Capcom is pushing 1-frame link existence and supporting it.
I’ve been playing fighting games for many years, and although I don’t play competitively in the past I’ve trained like I do. Narrowing Frame windows is more problematic then it is advanced execution. Don’t get me wrong, no one should be able to link combo after combo with ease, but 1-frame links shouldn’t be a deterrent from choosing a character, but it tends to be. I play an eclectic amount of fighters, and a lot of fighters do share strict timeframes to excute combos. But after all my years of playing these other fighters, SF4 is the only game I found bothersome to use 1-frame combos in a match.
Having lenient joystick commands and frame perfect button commands creates a weird divide for classic players. Things in the old days were strict but strictly in unison.
Makes no sense to me why they would go about changing it for this game.
My comment wasn’t directed at you or whatever it was you were asking. I don’t understand why you would think it was since I was replying to HawkinsT and his quote that was in my post.
