does nobody time their combos by the bobblehead?
They are pros because they have mastered all aspects of the game execution is one of them. Whether you like it or not execution is one aspect that separates the pros from the joes and you’re essentially wanting to take that away by making combo times easier. That would lessen the skill gap between pros and casual players since one aspect of the game would have basically been dumbed down. I’m not saying that you want nooby shit in the game, I’m simply pointing out that your argument could support putting nuby shit in the game. So, if you’re going to use this argument you really can’t complain about nub shit being put into a later version of SFIV without being a hypocrite.
Do you really think this game would be better with all sorts of noobies that dont put the time into the game pulling off lengthy combos and winning games? The skills to pull off these combos are fun to learn and give you some reward for putting the time into the game.
There are tricks for pulling these combos with ease, alongside a lot of practice, and thats meeting up and watching very good players and how they play on arcades… plinking/piano tricks I feel are essential if you want to pull of these combos and its good shit man… hmm I dont even know why I am replying I dont even feel this question is worth asking! Think man! :`DDD
how do u do the plinking/piano tricks?
Execution is probably the aspect of the game that LESS seperates the pros from the joes. Up to a certain point everyone can execute the combos really well, but knowing the game and knowing the matchups, having really good reaction is what REALLY seperates the Pro from the Joe (I love that term!), execution plays the most minor role here IMO.
I am not taking it away at all, taking it away would mean to lenghten them to a window of more that 3 frames. I don’t want that. I want all the basic BnB 1-framers to become 2 (or 3, which is a lot, IMO) framers, that would be pretty fair IMO. What I would not want to become 2 or 3 framers are advanced combos such as cr.mp cr.mp cr.hk or akuma st,rh jab jab st.rh.
The skill gap that is lessened by that is little, but enough to make SFIV a tad easier for beginners.
Ah, I see what you mean. But this is really an exception for me, because it’s BnB combos. I’d never use that argument e.g to make Ex focus cancels easier or something. It’s just the really basic stuff I wanted to be a tad easier. Things like FADC Ultra or something are more advanced techniques. I wouldn’t want them to become easy!
Proof that this works is KoFXII, for example. BnBs are really easy to do but in order to do the hard CC’s you need to put some time into practising them. And it’s really fun at VS! 
You’re making the same mistake a lot of new players to SF make, thinking that the ability to pull of those long flashy combos is what wins games. That is inaccurate: its the fundamentals, the basics, an understanding of the game’s simple core mechanics which leads to winning matches. Basic things like zoning, spacing, mind-games, footsies, the ability to read, predict and adjust to your opponent etc which are the key to winning matches.
It doesn’t matter how amazing your ability to fire off a 20 hit combo full of 1Frame links is on a training dummy, it is an understanding of the basics and fundamentals of the game which leads to giving you that opening in an actual match to land the first hit of your combo. I think everyone can agree on this.
As to your question, yes I do think that 2 and 3 frame links are already quite sufficiently difficult enough, and that the game would still be just as competitive if the 1 frame links were instead 2 or 3 frame links.
In disagreement with the above: It should require more skill (meaning accuracy and intention) to do more damage to the opponent. not "ooh I landed a jump-in! mashes buttons “yeah 10 hit combo, that’s what I thought! Peace out, Mago!”
the idea of no 1 frame links means that you could combo a lot of different things that the designers obviously don’t want you to do. that’s why there’s not only the apparent difficulty of certain combos, but why there’s a scaling system as well. if 3 frame links were the smallest gap between any 2 moves would also mean that heavier moves would have even larger gaps between hits which would be a problem since you’d probably have the option of linking fierce into fierce into fierce. If not that, then there’d just be too much time wasted watching a player get hit.
Truth be told: Not all combos were created equally. More precision for more damage is the only fair way to have it.
With a little time invested, one-frame links aren’t that hard to pull off. Just take 20-30 minutes a day of your free time and get the feel for the buttons; look for visual cues that will aid you (for me, as Guile, I often crossup with a light kick followed by 2 close standing jabs 1 frame link to standing far fierce, I know when to hit the fierce based on the feel for the time delay necessary and mostly by what position Guile’s elbow from the jab is in).
I’ll take back a previous statement, saying that 1 frame links wouldn’t have won a game for me, as of right now at least 3 were finished via the above link after a crossup and it feels damn good to KO someone with Guile’s outrageously diesel ass straight punch to the face off a 1 frame link.
If you increase the frame advantage on moves to make links easier, you will also make these moves safer and more abusable.
Crouching Jab Fighter IV ? Do not want.
So should every move in the game do massive hitstun? I’m pretty sure that would break the game more that tricky links.
guys just tell us how to do plinking/piano and this problem will be solved.
No it won’t. The bitching will never end.
Missing execution at a key moment can cost you the entire game. I’ve seen it happen many, many times. So it’s undoubtedly a very important aspect of the game. It’s just as important as any other aspect of the game and without it you’re metaphorical boat of skills will sink at high level play.
Personally, I think the last thing we, as the fighting game community, should do is try to convince developers, like capcom, to appeal to casual players. That’s the kind of stuff that leads to random tripping in brawl. That’s just my opinion, though. So, I’ll agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Do you really know what make the multiplayer of CS more competitive?It’s not the team crap … No
It’s what we call **SERVER AND PING :china: **
SF use a crappy Bar metter (A green ping can mean fighting someone with 270 MS and running sf4 on a toaster A 15 FPS )
A neutral server … with admin and stuff … you know … and spectator mode … Man that would be awesome…Now if i play on a 30 ms server vs someone.I don’t care if he got a red ping and run CS on a toaster.Because i’m not linked to him but to the server.
SF4 online it’s fun but it’s wont ever get to competitive level because of how it’s was done.1 Frame link online? ROFL …
I understand the opignons of the Op and i totally agree with him.The 1 frame link was made for japanase arcade player …Not for us the moron (The mass) …
Typically if you’re lagging with green ping it means your opponent, while close and actually DOES have good ping with you, is running on a computer that can’t handle the graphics. Personally, I turn off the maps in the background and fight solely in a black box. The reason being that the jungle level lags my computer, the rest of the maps are fine, but that jungle level during the daytime wrecks it, so I leave it off.
The annoying thing is, I know when we’re on that map…I can hear the noises in the background, and despite having 5 bars it’s still lagging because my opponent’s computer lags.
Very frustrating.
I didn’t read the whole thread, but you should read the sticky on plinking. Get good at that and 2 frame links become 100% and 1 frame links become 80-90%. I can do akuma’s stand rh stand jab loop up to like 4 reps in actual matches then end it with stand jab to sweep, that combo has 5 one frame links in it, and I am honestly not the best player execution wise by any means. You should really practice plinking every normal that you push.
I gave up reading at page 5 because my brain started to bleed a little after reading a few people argue their points while a lot of knuckle dragging mouth breathers gurgle out “DERR BE BETTERS!!! IT’S GOODZZZZZ” in between fits choking on saliva.
For anyone who says just learn plinking, I have a question.
Why is it better to work at using a random side effect of the games engine rather than just making the links easier?
I’m not expressing any opinion on whether or not I agree with extending link windows or talking about how I feel about plinking. Just asking a question.
People are all about what’s easier. Given that I play on a pad and plinking is a little awkward for me at times, I prefer to just get the feel of the links.
Exactly. If you are playing a newbie, the game/round should reflect that and feel easy to win. If you are playing a pro, the game/round should reflect that and feel hard to win. That is, the opponent should be the enemy and not the game itself. And that’s exactly how it feels in other competitive games or even real life sports. The opponent/other team is the enemy, not the input system of the game.
In SF4 1-Frame links simply introduce artificial difficulty into the game no matter who your opponent is. You want to be fighting against another player, not fighting against the input system of the game. And lastly for the millionth time, 2 and 3 frame links are already difficult enough as a test of execution.
You do know that using a server basically doubles the latency that you could’ve had if you used P2P (which is what SF4 uses), right? Server stuff has been done before on Kaillera, and that was far more unplayable. I don’t think it is possible to get something like 1 frame links down online. GGPO is close to offline, but its “warpy” lag really throws me off. I do agree they should’ve just kept it with a specific ping instead of bars so we don’t have to guess how bad the connection is.